Being Gay and Christian...is this possible?

Can you give me the verse for "moral agents"? I would like to look that up.

paintedgoldfish said:

Can you give me the verse for "moral agents"? I would like to look that up.

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There isn't really a verse that specifically says "your a moral agent" but the fact that we got what we call "morals" is something that separates us distinctly from the animal kingdom. I have already mentioned using scripture, my stance on active homosexuality. I am not arguing that simply because we are moral agents, and animals are not...that homosexuality is thus a sin. I'm just saying that citing so called "homosexual" animals isn't a credible argument.

If animals don't have morals, why did God punish the snake by having him crawl on the ground forever? If the animal didn't know right from wrong he should not have been punished.

paintedgoldfish said:

If animals don't have morals, why did God punish the snake by having him crawl on the ground forever? If the animal didn't know right from wrong he should not have been punished.

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I'll get back to you on this, but I think that Genesis probably shouldn't be taken literally, I also have a feeling that the serpent was just used as a representation of Satan, but I want to check stuff before I really stand behind this answer.

till then, Peace.

Thank you for checking.

Searching_for_Christ said:

There isn't really a verse that specifically says "your a moral agent" but the fact that we got what we call "morals" is something that separates us distinctly from the animal kingdom. I have already mentioned using scripture, my stance on active homosexuality. I am not arguing that simply because we are moral agents, and animals are not...that homosexuality is thus a sin. I'm just saying that citing so called "homosexual" animals isn't a credible argument.

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I agree, it isn't a credible argument for the morality of homosexuality, but it does address the naturalness of it, which is the context I've seen most use it in.

That said, I'd just like to point out that in addition to our capability of higher thought, the nurture of that ability is tantamount, and really the only thing that keeps us from being purely instinctual. We've seen evidence of this with feral children. At our core, we're quite similar to other mammals.

Thanks Jase for responding to my post. I take all you say about why for gay people it is very personal if they are bullied and abused and rejected. I guess I was thinking more about straight people who get so angry - why? I'm sure revanneosl is right to say fear, mostly. Fear of their own less than secure sexual identity? I don't think it can be just because they think homosexual acts are sins - otherwise they'd get equally angry about other sins, but it just doesn't happen.

Perfect love casts out fear.

Michael Collum said:

Hmm i dunno, i see divorced and remarried pastors . what do you say about that?

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I say it is more of a question of acknowledging the sin. I personally do not think there is any difference between homosexual sex and premarital sex in God's eyes.

The issue is do the Christians involved homosex think it is a acceptable act to God. I mean, do they feel shame? Should they feel shame, in the same way a divorced or remarried pastor should feel shame....and SEEK FORGIVENESS?

Are Christians arguing the fact that homosex is accepted Christian practice? Surely not.

jpcedotal said:

I say it is more of a question of acknowledging the sin. I personally do not think there is any difference between homosexual sex and premarital sex in God's eyes.

The issue is do the Christians involved homosex think it is a acceptable act to God. I mean, do they feel shame? Should they feel shame, in the same way a divorced or remarried pastor should feel shame....and SEEK FORGIVENESS?

Are Christians arguing the fact that homosex is accepted Christian practice? Surely not.

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Actually many Christians DO believe homosexual sex is an accepted Christian practice. In fact they they/we believe this with the full knowledge (and more importantly the understanding) of the "clobber passages" so often used to abuse other Christians.

In truth I might even agree with you that God views homosexual sex and pre-marital sex the same. The standard is whether or not it violates the law of love...if it does not the I do not believe God views either as sin.

Before you shoot your burning arrows at me I ask you to remember which forum this is btw.

paintedgoldfish said:

I am a new Christian of about 5 weeks. I am attending a First Assembly of God church and I know that they believe that being Gay is a sin. I am a Gay woman in a 9 year relationship.
I have been told that I can loose my salvation if I remain in a homosexual relationship. I have been told that it is between me and God. And I have been told that God doesn't care who I love, just that I live my life for him.
I realize that this is a liberal forum and the answers I get will be reflective of the liberal views here. What I am looking for is what the Bible says on the issue.
Can I be Gay and be a Christian? How do we know how God feels about the subject?
I don't want to loose my relationship with my wife. She means the world to me and we rely on eachother for assistance with our various medical needs.
I am afraid to give God my whole trust and love for fear that he will take her away from me. I want to reach out to God to draw me closer to him but I am too afraid to do it because I know he willl change my heart. I don't want him too.

Is it ok to stay with my wife and why?

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what you've said here is the truth---God will change your heart. Basically you must choose between relying on Him or relying on your wife. he won't force you, of course, because He's a gentleman.

Jesus said that He had come that people might have life, and have it abundantly. There are many people today who settle for what they can make of life themselves. your example of the life you have now is what Jesus came to change.

I have friends who were addicted to drugs before they met Jesus, and knowing Jesus, they would not go back to that life. Alcoholics say the same thing, as do those who ran with gangs. in all three instances they had friends in their old lives, and they thought that those lives worked for them--until they met Jesus and found out how great life can really be.

up until now you've been doing life your way.
if you choose to follow Jesus, then you do life His way, or you continue to do life your way. But since your way is not His way, there is a choice to be made. and yes, not making a choice is still choosing. With Jesus you're all in or you're all out--there is no middle ground.

Trying to live in the middle will tear you apart, and you will regret it.
the old way will not seem the same because you have been changed, yet trying to cling to the old and still be in the new life will not be satisfying.

There are those who try to do so, I admit. But the only way they can justify it is to change God's rules. And God, being eternal, doesn't change his rules.

i understand the fear of loosing your support and your friends--of giving up everything you've known--but you have the choice to let go of what you are holding on to and what you know, in order to grasp something infinitely better that is unknown to you now. It involves trust and hope that the new life in Christ that you are going to, will be better than what you leave behind.

there are so many stories in the bible about this, but the one i am reminded of is Lot's wife. When she and her husband Lot (brother of Abram) left Sodom, the Lord told her not to look behind her. But she did, and in the story she was turned into a pillar of salt---unable to go either forward or back.

the point here is that while you know the things in your past well and have relied upon them, they aren't permanent, and can be taken away. the only sure thing worthy of your trust and faith is Jesus. His love is eternal and cannot disapear from those who are His sheep, because He has named them and sealed them as His own forever, and no one can take them away from Him.

But like Lot's wife, you can turn away--He gives everyone that option, but it is harder to get back once you have turned away than it was to come to him in the beginning. in turning away you have that much more baggage, that many more chains holding you back that must be let go, that much more to work thru, than when you first came to Him of your own accord.

it's easier by far to make the committment to follow Him the first time He calls you.

Searching_for_Christ said:

I have never liked the argument of "hey look animals do it to" animals are not remotely like us. Animals are not moral agents, we however are.

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I'm merely pointing out it's a completely natural phenomenon and has an evolutionary purpose in the animal kingdom. I usually hear the argument "It's unnatural". That's not true.

jpcedotal said:

I say it is more of a question of acknowledging the sin. I personally do not think there is any difference between homosexual sex and premarital sex in God's eyes.

The issue is do the Christians involved homosex think it is a acceptable act to God. I mean, do they feel shame? Should they feel shame, in the same way a divorced or remarried pastor should feel shame....and SEEK FORGIVENESS?

Are Christians arguing the fact that homosex is accepted Christian practice? Surely not.

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The thing is . that is between them and God . it is really none of your business .

Michael Collum said:

The thing is . that is between them and God . it is really none of your business .

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correction and reproval, are actually functions of the Church, and as Christians it is a duty of ours. Folks say not to judge, but trying to correct sin isn't judging...just sayin.

Searching_for_Christ said:

correction and reproval, are actually functions of the Church, and as Christians it is a duty of ours. Folks say not to judge, but trying to correct sin isn't judging...just sayin.

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Unless your sins are taken care of, it is judging. The whole removing the log before commenting on the speck line.

You're also "correcting" sin based on your personal interpretation of scripture. It used to be a sin to declare that the earth revolves around the sun, and the Church would excommunicate you or worse for speaking of such heresy. Clearly the Church was wrong. So too can be the anti-gay crowd.

Jase said:

Unless your sins are taken care of, it is judging. The whole removing the log before commenting on the speck line.

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If homosexuality is a sin, then I have not log to take out of my eye.

You're also "correcting" sin based on your personal interpretation of scripture. It used to be a sin to declare that the earth revolves around the sun, and the Church would excommunicate you or worse for speaking of such heresy. Clearly the Church was wrong. So too can be the anti-gay crowd.

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you too are "correcting" what is considered sin by your own personal interpretation as well.

Michael Collum said:

The thing is . that is between them and God . it is really none of your business .

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it is if this person comes into my church and tries to teach the Word to a Sunday School Class proclaiming being homosexual is ok and God doesn't consider it a sin....THEN...it becomes my business.

jpcedotal said:

it is if this person comes into my church and tries to teach the Word to a Sunday School Class proclaiming being homosexual is ok and God doesn't consider it a sin....THEN...it becomes my business.

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True enough. But why would a person who believes homosexuality is NOT a sin want to be in your church in the first place...let alone teach contrary to your church's official position on the matter? There are plenty of churches around who agree that the bible does not prohibit responsible homosexuality.

ghendricks63 said:

True enough. But why would a person who believes homosexuality is NOT a sin want to be in your church in the first place...let alone teach contrary to your church's official position on the matter? There are plenty of churches around who agree that the bible does not prohibit responsible homosexuality.

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Exactly....

Jase said:

Unless your sins are taken care of, it is judging. The whole removing the log before commenting on the speck line.

You're also "correcting" sin based on your personal interpretation of scripture. It used to be a sin to declare that the earth revolves around the sun, and the Church would excommunicate you or worse for speaking of such heresy. Clearly the Church was wrong. So too can be the anti-gay crowd.

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Indeed!!

jpcedotal said:

Exactly....

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So now I am curious. Has someone come into your church and tried to teach such a view in your SS class? Or was that comment simple rhetoric to try to justify your criticism of those who believe differently than you do?