Allah sent Jesus to save mankind....

WarriorAngel · May 15, 2011

...and it still doesnt make their claims of their faith right if it contradicts.

Tigg · May 15, 2011

JoabAnias said:
I believe what the Popes and the councils of the Church say my dear. Then I seek to ascend to that teaching by learning to understand it.

You didn't answer my question.

"It appears there is a disagreement with the Church as has been pointed out in the documents of Vatican II and statements of various Popes.

How do you reconcile that contradiction?"

and another;

Do you know why the Popes and Vatican II say we worship the same one God?

There must be some misunderstanding when one sides with non-Catholic opinion versus the Magisterial guidance of the Church.

Lol! Could it be I am going straight to hades in a hand basket? Always wondered where ze hand basket went and what I was doing in thar.

God bless

JoabAnias · May 15, 2011

If you don't know the answer, not trying to see it isn't getting any closer to it.

May God bless you too and may the Holy Spirit enlighten with the answer to the questions asked.

JoabAnias · May 15, 2011

No one said Islam has its theology right.

The Church says Muslims worship the same one God. As do the Jews and yes many other non-trinitarians.

That fact being in Vat II is from the Holy Spirit.

Bigotry, prejudice and discrimination are not from the Holy Spirit.

Jesus would condemn such disdain of another.

No if's, and's or but's.

Tigg · May 16, 2011

JoabAnias said:
I believe what the Popes and the councils of the Church say my dear. Then I seek to ascend to that teaching by learning to understand it.

You didn't answer my question.

"It appears there is a disagreement with the Church as has been pointed out in the documents of Vatican II and statements of various Popes.

How do you reconcile that contradiction?"

and another;

Do you know why the Popes and Vatican II say we worship the same one God?

There must be some misunderstanding when one sides with non-Catholic opinion versus the Magisterial guidance of the Church.

I do not believe Allah is God. What I do believe is:

I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Also the Apostles Creed.

:wave:

JoabAnias · May 16, 2011

Tigg said:
I do not believe Allah is God. What I do believe is:

I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Also the Apostles Creed.

You get that from the Church who says Father = Allah.

Tigg · May 16, 2011

JoabAnias said:
You get that from the Church who says Father = Allah.

Nope. No Allah in there as the Muslim's call em. Thanks for your posts. Interesting. Have a good day!

JoabAnias · May 16, 2011

Tigg said:
Nope. No Allah in there as the Muslim's call em. Thanks for your posts. Interesting. Have a good day!

Yep, Allah = God according to Vat II and the Popes so your wrong. Working on those questions not answered might help in finding out what they really mean.

Ronald · May 16, 2011

Allah of the Qur'an is not the God of the Bible in many ways. Jesus is God, the exact likeness and fullness of His glory, radiance and truth and contains all power and authority in heaven and earth. Their claim that Jesus is not Allah is true -- since Allah is not God. Their concept of God is distorted. Our God does not change, is personal and knowable and their God is pragmatic and unknowable and they cannot be certain as to what he will do next. Allah is not merciful or forgiving as Jesus is. Allah does not take away their sins and so there is no redemption. Muslims or anyone else cannot rid themselves of sin by any works. Faith in Jesus does cleanse us of all sin. He is the light of the world and they reject Him as such.
Therefore, Muslims believe in a different god that is described in a book that was written by a false prophet who never performed miracles or gave one varifiable prophecy. This god commands Muslims not to be friends with Christians or Jews, beleager them in all strategems of war, spread their religion by forced conversions ... and you say the Catholic church claims this is the same god?
All false religions have their original architect, Satan. They are deceived in thinking they are worshiping the Creator. Their prayers are empty and religion is futile so there can be no benefit in any way. Islam, Budhism, Hinduism and all other ways claiming enlightenment apart from Jesus are all wrong paths leading to destruction. The Catholic Church has to say what they did to appease them and show respect.
They don't want to jugde or argue the point. The Holy Spirit converts, we don't by our intellectual reasoning or arguments.
As someone else said, Jesus is God and man. His spiritual nature didn't die on the cross, his physical body did. He said to the thief next to him that today you will be in paradise with Me. When people go to heaven, their spirit goes. There is a second death that will occur when all who do not believe in Christ will be thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed -- both body and soul! (see Matt. 10:28)
We have a Savior, they don't ... unless they turn to Christ. The greatest love is that someone gives their life for you -- Jesus did. We needed a (human) high priest to offer the atonement for sins (Himself). Only God could take away the sins of the world for all time and for all who believe. That required ominiscience, omnipotence and omnipresence, all of which Jesus has.
*The Jews will be enlightened in the end times; the vail will be lifted and they will see.

JoabAnias · May 16, 2011

Ronald said:
Allah of the Qur'an is not the God of the Bible in many ways.

Semantics. The one God is the one God no matter who tries to define Him.

Of course we know He is in three persons. He is still the same God for those who don't.

*The Jews will be enlightened in the end times; the vail will be lifted and they will see.

Says who?

And so you are admitting the God the Jews worship is the same God as the Christian God.

Christians do come from the Jews (as does Islam) but we have a vastly different concept of God.

Should the Jews say we worship a false God?

Ronald · May 20, 2011

The Jews will be enlightened during the end times.

Says who?

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
[/FONT]What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks;
but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
[/FONT]
Rom. 11:7
NKJV

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
[/FONT]I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall?
Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to
jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold] [/FONT]Rom. 11:11 NKJV

So they were blinded to this day.
Here in lies the hope for the Jews:

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/FONT]For I do not desire,
brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you
should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has
happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come

in.[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold] [/FONT]Rom. 11:25 NKJV

And so you are admitting the God the Jews worship is the same God as the Christian God.

They worship the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but are but blind to Whom the I AM is, the Messiah, Jesus.

Christians do come from the Jews (as does Islam) but we have a vastly different concept of God.

Since there are "vast differences", distortions and lies about God in their religion, we cannot disrespect our God by claiming He is the "same" god as their Allah.

Should the Jews say we worship a false God?

[/QUOTE]
The blind say what they will, so what. Soon they'll know the truth.

JoabAnias · May 20, 2011

Ronald said:
The Jews will be enlightened during the end times.

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]“[/FONT]What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks;
but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]”[/FONT]
Rom. 11:7
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]“[/FONT]I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall?

Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to
jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]” [/FONT]Rom. 11:11 NKJV

So they were blinded to this day.

Here in lies the hope for the Jews: [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]“[/FONT]For I do not desire,
brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you
should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has
happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]” [/FONT]Rom. 11:25 NKJV

They worship the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but are but blind to Whom the I AM is, the Messiah, Jesus.

Since there are "vast differences", distortions and lies about God in their religion, we cannot disrespect our God by claiming He is the "same" god as their Allah.

The blind say what they will, so what. Soon they'll know the truth.

Maybe the Muslims are blinded too and will know the truth at the same time as the Jews. Maybe all protesters of the Church will return to the fullness of the faith in the one true visible Church founded by Jesus. They all also worship the same one God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in as different ways as the Jews, yet still the same God.

BAFRIEND · May 21, 2011

JoabAnias said:
Yep, Allah = God according to Vat II and the Popes so your wrong. Working on those questions not answered might help in finding out what they really mean.

no, if that is what the popes and vii said then they got it wrong

case in point, the Church holds that the mormon church is a cult and for exactly the same reasons that islam is one

basically for inducting Jesus (who is God) into plagarized religion and stating he is not God

if it is God in islam; then you have to state it is God in mormonism as well

btw, while in theory islam is supposed to hold Jesus in high esteem because to them he is a prophet, i have not seen that sentiment in practice from muslims

JoabAnias · May 21, 2011

Lots of cults believe in the one true God. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Vatican II got it wrong huh?

Rochir · May 21, 2011

nice to see more and more threads to tear down others believes!

Ronald · May 22, 2011

Rochir,
Should we build up others false beliefs ... encourage them to believe in whatever they want, no matter what religion? The main purpose of spreading the Gospel (the Truth / the Good News) is to enlighten people who are on a dark path. The Gospel tears down and dissolves lies and exposes sin.
Gandhi did not like Christians. Obviously he did not get to know many. That is a hasty generalization. If I were you, I wouldn't tout that quote with pride! Wasn't he a Hindu who believes in reincarnation, with little mercy or forgiveness? Hindus suffer on the streets and no one helps them because they don't want to interfere with their destined karma that must be experienced. What a concept ... and let's not tear that down? Gandhi may have admired Christ, but unfortunately, admiration doesn't get you into heaven. Admiration doesn't cleanse sin. Faith that Christ died for our sins and rose on the third day is what he should have received.
So you are a pro-choice Christian? Wow. Oh well, maybe the Christians Gandhi met were the liberal ones?

Allah sent Jesus to save mankind....

I close my eyes and see you smile

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