What was your first fall out with mainstream Christianity?

DavinMochrie said:

That's horrible!

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Horrible but believeable!

My mom was a single parent, an unmarried mother. When I was younger, some Christians looked on me as something from outer space. Left out little oddball

Well when i visited a church once (in a very affluant area)

Some of the people there were looking down their noses at poorer/working class people who live in Council Houses (Social housing), talking and insinuating we're scum and lowlives, when i told them i was from council housing, they began to lok uncomfortable and squirm.

I do admit, in some Anglican Chruches (only in some and not in my own) you get people who seem to go to church like a "keeping up appearances" thing, rather than true faith.

DavinMochrie said:

Sigh,

Imagine if Joesph had done the same to Mary.


Where do these people get off?

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Not to worry, whenever I go to a Christian meeting and I see someone left out or standing on their own, I go over and speak to them. I know whats its like

Every cloud has a silver lining they say, or 'God works for the good in all things'.

I took a humanties course in college when I was 18, and that started the ball rolling. It completely shattered my faith, and it has been a long and painful struggle to where I am now in my spiritual journey. I still consider myself a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, and I don't think that will ever change. However, I no longer believe all of the man-made dogmas that ancient councils formualted that surround Jesus, and I will never come back to the Church.

The concepts that I still struggle with is hell and death, and that is still a painful part of my spiritual path. I was brainwashed at an early age to believe that all non-believers go to hell by my Southern Baptist upbringing My mother refuses to believe my experiences, which also causes resentments. You can't argue what a person's experience is and how they internalize doctrines as a child. Fortunately I've come to realize some of what triggers my fear of hell to bubble to the surface, and I've learned to avoid those triggers. The brainwashing was so powerful that my fear of hell is intact despite the fact that I have no rational reason to believe in hell. Due to my experiences I will never do this to any child of mine. Also due to these experiences I have very strong opinions now that children should not be indoctrinated into any religion (that includes atheism, etc.) and it is a violation of their human rights. Any children that I may have will be free to form their own opinions and worldview as they grow up.

The fear of death comes mainly from my college days where nearly 30 of my classmates died over a period of three years. It also probably comes from a deep-seated evolutionary cause since it is a common fear. However, my fear of death is closely correlated to my fear of hell.

You have to wonder sometimes just how useful the Church is considering the sheer number of people damaged by it.

kiwimac said:

You have to wonder sometimes just how useful the Church is considering the sheer number of people damaged by it.

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But there are other churches where people are helped. A homeless guy I know is a heroin addict and is being sponsored through rehab by a little church near here.

There are some good stories too

My mother stopped me from going to Crusaders (a Christian youth organisation) when I was about 9 because I'd come home and have nightmares about going to hell.

At University some of the leaders of the Christian Union were expert at emotional blackmail. I wanted to raise questions about the interpretation of the Bible, about the originas of the universe etc, and they would give me a sad, pitying sort of smile, and let me know how disappointed they were with me. They also tried to stop me going out with a particular girl, because they felt I was too 'young' a Christian. They failed. We'll be celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary in August.

DavinMochrie said:

As a liberal Christian.... I suspect you have all had a 'falling out' or point of disagreement with mainstream dogma?

Please share your stories.

Myself,

It was in High School. I went to a Catholic School. I was having a bad time in my life and at school.

What I observed was the lack of compassion and empathy at school with both teachers and students. I even saw a lot of corruption amongst Teachers and how they had their 'favourite' students.

So to me, I saw they were not following the path of Christ. It was like lip service, or a badge to wear. It lead to disillusion. The illusion was lifted.

Today I don't see that anything has changed no matter what the denomination. People can call themselves whatever, judge and condemn whatever...but if they are not following the words of Jesus (Remember they used to be in red?) then they are nothing but hypocrites.

Just my story/opinions.

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When I was in my teens and with the various of friends I had.
Then when I was in my early 20's.
Then when I completely left the faith.
Then now as I am seriously contemplating at least going back to church.

My first falling out with mainstream Christianity happened when I joined a Bible study group in college. It was the first time I had encountered real die-hard creationists. I just couldn't get my head around Dinosaur fossils being a trick by Satan.

1. God is good
2. I am less good than God
3. I wouldn't set fire to a person
4. If God is better than I am, can't see how God would set fire to people

Probably my biggest one was the one I am having now(Atheist phase was more about science than it was the church)

For me it has been more about how fake the inside of the church looks compared to the "secular world". The greedy prosperity pastors in the church that use tithing to rip people off. Not even atheist do that. Its bad when you would rather trust a Godless heathen with your money than a leader who is an annointed man of God.

Then the intense legalism and the "you must be perfect and sinless or YOU. WILL. BURN!!!" atmosphere. If you are sinning, you don't have the Holy Spirit and you are going to Hell. Most of the time they don't even follow the rules they hold up to others. Luckily for me its mostly from the older crowd(50+) than the younger christians.

I would notice that nonreligious people(They believe in God and Jesus but that is where it stops) do such great acts of kindness towards me when your typical churchy folk would pout their nose up. I would expect them to give a bible verse before they gave a starving child something to eat. I started thinking that maybe I was the same pharisee that Jesus spoke against not going into Heaven.

Again was the money. ALWAYS asking for money, needing money. Jesus can walk on water, heal leapers, rise from the grave from 3 days but needs 5 bucks from me on Sunday? Then I learned that Jews don't tithe and that there is no commandment to in the Old Testament. That opened the floodgates.

Then with the creationism. I always felt a very strong anti-science presence with the christian community. Most did not know much about evolution. I believe in evolution but I felt like I was being guilt tripped into accepted creationism and believing it despite the huge logical leaps needed to accept it. The evidence for it was promising when I first discovered it but after I started looking closely at it, I noticed that young earth creationism was a lie. I felt like I had to "dumb" myself down for Christ.

Then The political side of the church perplexed me to no end. I did not see republican Jesus that told black people to stop being welfare queens, eliminate welfare, support total war, poor people hating, single out gay people for hatred, promoted American individualism(I am going to get mine and everyone else can go to Hell) in the bible. I saw the opposite. The support of a political party that have a lot of contradictions towards Christ as portrayed in the bible confused me.

Being black myself, the racism that some christians displayed for others was just absolutely revolting to me. A lot of christians I met were not even the slightest bit racist but the ones that were made you want to throw your bible in the trash and become an atheist. How can you claim to have the love of God and view black people in such negative light? I remember a guy telling me about a racist pastor back in Texas that refered black people "n****rs" in private company and how he REALLY hated black people. Hearing stuff like that wears on your christian morale. It opens up pot shots for atheist to attack our already dying church.

Then watching all the suffering in the world but no one wanted to do a single thing about it or felt the need to help. It was more about building up church buildings than being radicals helping the poor.

Then the whole christian consumerism culture didn't feel like a group of believers exchanging ideas to outreach for Jesus but a bomb shelter from the "secular" world. Sure you just have to pretend to have fun and put on a fake a smile but at least you aren't "worldly" and going straight to Hell like "those" people who aren't REAL christians. Having to sift through these types of ministries to get some good ones are annoying and time consuming. Don't get me started on the ones that think Rock is the devil's music and the electric guitar is satanic.

The problem is that is is hard to find a good fit with down to Earth people with big hearts. Churches range so much and sometimes I wonder that I may never find a church that I will like and can grow in. I honestly don't ever want to be tied to a building in the middle of some random town. I want a church that can go anywhere and help everyone like Jesus did. I want a church that I can be proud to say I go to when people ask me what church I am apart of.

Abiel said:

1. God is good
2. I am less good than God
3. I wouldn't set fire to a person
4. If God is better than I am, can't see how God would set fire to people

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I guess the answer you might get to that would be that God is a prisoner of his own holiness. Even if he wanted to love and forgive unconditionally his holy nature prevents him. Therefore holiness is sovereign, not himself?

lismore said:

I guess the answer you might get to that would be that God is a prisoner of his own holiness. Even if he wanted to love and forgive unconditionally his holy nature prevents him. Therefore holiness is sovereign, not himself?

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I reckon CS Lewis was on to something in his book The Great Divorce. I suspect God can not force people into accepting him without resorting to cooking them

Reading the Old Testament. Undoubted there is some really good stuff there. I especially like the Wisdom books. There is also a lot of downright evil , genocide, religious bigotry, and persecution all being packaged as a good thing and god ordained.

Examples:

Ezekiel 9:5-7
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Deuteronomy 7:1-2
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations?the Hittites, Girga[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. [


I think some of the early Christians like Marcion recognized this. He was interesting fellow and proposed the first Christian canon of NT scripture that we know of.

This is another example.

2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
-2 Kings 2:23,24

Some children call Elisha names so "god" apparently summons bears to kill them?! Doesn't sound like Jesus. He asked for the forgiveness of the people who mocked and even crucified him! I'm sure he could take a child calling him bald without murdering them.

Abiel said:

I reckon CS Lewis was on to something in his book The Great Divorce. I suspect God can not force people into accepting him without resorting to cooking them

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thanks I'll look into the book.

In the Old Testament the presence of God was often overwhelming. I cannot imagine that God would have difficulties getting through to people when indeed they meet him face to face.

My relationship with the Christian religion is a long and conflicted one for many reasons. If you want to read the "condensed" version of my journey, you can find it on my blog referenced in my profile here. But, in short, I've struggled with many of the same issues that others have mentioned in this thread - hell, the Bible vs. science, immoral/hypocritical Christians, horrible images of God, bad churches, etc. For many of these issues, while I experienced some cognitive dissonance from them, I simply kept them on the back burner of my mind for further study. After all, I knew enough to know that I didn't know everything. So though many of these things were "pebbles in my shoe," I kept on walking in the mainstream interpretation of the Christian faith.

But the breaking point came 8 years ago when we were attending a Bible Church and I was called out of worship service to come help with my son who was 4 years old at the time. As I entered the hallway to where the Children's Church was being conducted, I heard my son wailing and I wondered what he could have hurt himself on. When he saw me, he ran to me, crying, "Daddy, why would Jesus burn me? Why would Jesus burn me?" He was hysterical with fear. I tried to reassure him that Jesus wouldn't burn him and had my wife take him out to the car for further comfort.

I asked the Children's Church teacher what had happened and, in brief, she had shown the kids an artist's rendition of hell, with a man engulfed in flames, his arms raised to heaven, crying out for mercy to a god who would never hear or answer the cries. I was incensed and told this teacher that 1) Jesus never threatened children with hell and 2) it was an inappropriate subject for children. She replied that she did not want the blood of these children on her hands, that she had a duty to God to warn them of what would happen to them if they did not accept Jesus as their personal savior. Despite her "biblical argument," I still felt she was in serious error of presenting this to children and went to talk with the church elders about the situation. They stood behind this teacher and said that what she taught was biblical, scriptural and that the truth should be taught to all, regardless of age. I disagreed and we left the church.

This incident was the straw that broke this camel's back. I had to find a new way to interpret my faith in God or leave the faith altogether. For me, I know that God is real for my own reasons, but I don't trust the teachings of the church or of Christianity as a whole because, to me, they don't necessarily line up with the kind of compassionate God that we see in the life of Jesus. I am proudly a "cherry-picker." We have to be this way in all of life, discerning right from wrong and better from good. This applies to religion also.

I am no longer a mainstream Christian because I concur with what Ghandhi said about Christianity, "I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians. They are not very much like your Christ." It is, of course, a blanket statement. There are many good and loving people in mainstream Christianity. But, to me, it is a religion grounded in fear and boundary-setting, not in love and freedom. Jesus said that perfect love casts out all fear and that the truth would set us free. If we live our lives in fear and bondage, maybe we aren't truly seeking or walking in truth.

For me, it was realizing that the people in my particular church weren't the only real Christians, despite hearing from the pulpit that our denomination was it.

I came across too many legit Christians in college who never darkened the doors of my denomination's churches.

Sigh. Just another good fundy boy who lost his faith at the university...

I ended up deserting fundamentalism, and attend a mainline denominational church where I can call things into question (ex. Hell as endless torture) and not feel condemned.

Abiel said:

I reckon CS Lewis was on to something in his book The Great Divorce. I suspect God can not force people into accepting him without resorting to cooking them

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That book really did a number on my understanding too. Lewis seemed to think that Hell was a place people chose, one in which people preferred their mundane interests over eternal bliss in Heaven. Those same people, when allowed to experience Heaven, found it intolerable for some reason.