Physical Divinity of Christ

TheOligarch

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Is that contested? That genuinely surprises me. Scripture describes Jesus's physical appearance as normal:

[BIBLE]Isaiah 53:2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.[/BIBLE]

And we know that he ate food and drank just like we do. He experienced pain as we do. I have not been around here for very long, but since Gnosticism was condemned as heresy more than nineteen centuries ago, I am skeptical about anyone contesting the non-divinity of the physical body of Christ.
 
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Dutch42

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TheOligarch said:
It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine. Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

The apostle Paul said it in Fil 2:6
6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death—even the death of the cross.

It is a way of humiliating. The Creator who became a human. And I think when I think of this.. He, who reign the world.. He, who create the World, became a Human. The Targum said that the Word of God was walking into the garden.. He, who was there when Adam and Eve sin.. decide to become equal to the human. Fully... so nobody can said: But for you it was easy.. you was that time divine...
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine.

Hi, it would seem so, yet we must remember that He was begotten by the Father of the Virgin Mary. His Divine physical nature co-exists with His human physical nature. This is further revealed to us at the Transfiguration, and after Easter when Thomas touches our Lords wounds.

Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

God does everything for a purpose, so I think "symbolic" may be a bad term; however there are many parallels which we observe in the actions of God.

We Lutherans, based on our understanding of Scripture see a parallel in the co-existence of His Divine and human physical natures in the Eucharist, in that when we receive the Holy Sacrament, we receive both the bread and wine, and Christ's Divine and human body and blood; this is very real to us, and not at all "symbolic".

Go Christian brothers! Reveal all to me that is hidden!

For us, this is not hidden at all; Emmanuel, God With Us!

I hope this helps:).
 
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elopez

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It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine. Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

Go Christian brothers! Reveal all to me that is hidden!
Why do you think that Christ was fully man and fully God as spirit yet only fully man once incarnated?
 
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CryptoLutheran

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I don't understand why we're dividing Christ's sprituality from His materiality. Jesus Christ is God-Man, the one Lord Jesus who is both Son of God and Son of Man, begotten of the Father before all ages and begotten of Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit; the One and Same is Lord and Christ and Savior of all. One Jesus, with a rational mind, rational body and a rational soul. Wholly God and wholly human.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Knee V

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I'll use an analogy:

If you have a nail and then wrap a current-carrying wire around the nail (some would call that a "coil"), what happens? The nail becomes a magnet. For the sake of argument, we'll say that magnetism is one "thing", and the nail is one "thing". Before the nail has the coil around it, it is a nail. After the nail has the coil around it, it is still a nail. Before the coil was over the nail, the magnetism was magnetism. After the coil was around the nail, the magnetism was magnetism. Neither the nail nor the magnetism changed. But once you put the coil over the nail, the entire nail became magnetic. If you were to be able to put a piece of metal to the nail at any point on the nail, the piece of metal would stick to the nail. On all points of the nail, it is both fully nail and fully magnetism. They are not combined into one whole new substance, yet it is impossible to separate the two. You couldn't get a microscope and differentiate between magnetism particles and nail particles. It is one magnetic nail.

It is similar with Christ. The Word became man. Man is not a soul trapped in a body. Man is soul AND body (some would say body, soul and spirit, but that's a different debate). God didn't become a human soul. God became man. God became ALL that man is. In fact, John uses the verbiage, "and the Word became flesh". He didn't just take on a soul; He took on flesh. The Word became united to all that we, as "man", are. The entire person of Jesus Christ was entirely God-man. It's not that God "fills" the body of Jesus from the inside. Rather, Divinity and humanity are fully united in One Person.

Make any sense?
 
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TheOligarch

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Perhaps some clarification is in order.

I don't understand why we're dividing Christ's sprituality from His materiality.

The spirit (or soul if you prefer), or nature of a being is an entirely distinct from the material. My body is a physical and thus the shell for my spirit. My body is that of a human, my soul is that of a human.

In Jesus we see again a soul in a body just as we are. However, his soul was comprised of both an unfallen human nature (as Adam had) and a fully divine nature; these coexisted to make him wholly man and wholly God. However, if we look back to his shell, his body, we find that divinity does not reside there.

Hi, it would seem so, yet we must remember that He was begotten by the Father of the Virgin Mary. His Divine physical nature co-exists with His human physical nature. This is further revealed to us at the Transfiguration, and after Easter when Thomas touches our Lords wounds.

Now, certainly his immaculate conception was an amazing PHYSICAL miracle and also the Transfiguration which is also a PHYSICAL miracle. But these both affected his nature, not necessarily his body. The immaculate conception provided him with an unfallen nature, the Transfiguration revealed his divine nature within.

What I mean specifically with this topic is that the shell of God was not divine in that Jesus was not superman. Jesus had no special abilities that arose from his flesh. He ate, slept, walked, bled, and didn't look particularly handsome. I am not challenging that he is wholly man and God, but I most certainly DO challenge that the divinity of Christ extends into the physical realm. After all, God IS spirit.
 
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Abiel

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I'll use an analogy:

If you have a nail and then wrap a current-carrying wire around the nail (some would call that a "coil"), what happens? The nail becomes a magnet. For the sake of argument, we'll say that magnetism is one "thing", and the nail is one "thing". Before the nail has the coil around it, it is a nail. After the nail has the coil around it, it is still a nail. Before the coil was over the nail, the magnetism was magnetism. After the coil was around the nail, the magnetism was magnetism. Neither the nail nor the magnetism changed. But once you put the coil over the nail, the entire nail became magnetic. If you were to be able to put a piece of metal to the nail at any point on the nail, the piece of metal would stick to the nail. On all points of the nail, it is both fully nail and fully magnetism. They are not combined into one whole new substance, yet it is impossible to separate the two. You couldn't get a microscope and differentiate between magnetism particles and nail particles. It is one magnetic nail.

It is similar with Christ. The Word became man. Man is not a soul trapped in a body. Man is soul AND body (some would say body, soul and spirit, but that's a different debate). God didn't become a human soul. God became man. God became ALL that man is. In fact, John uses the verbiage, "and the Word became flesh". He didn't just take on a soul; He took on flesh. The Word became united to all that we, as "man", are. The entire person of Jesus Christ was entirely God-man. It's not that God "fills" the body of Jesus from the inside. Rather, Divinity and humanity are fully united in One Person.

Make any sense?


THat's not a bad analogy at all! Thanks!
 
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Simonline

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It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine. Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

Go Christian brothers! Reveal all to me that is hidden!

Neither in spirit nor out of spirit is the human creature Jesus of Nazareth even remotely Divine otherwise the terms 'human' and 'Divine' become ambiguous and therefore lose their meaning?!

It is the Person of the Son Who simultaneously exists as Divine Creator and human creature. However the way that the Person of the Son exists as the Divine Creator is totally different to the way that the same Person exists as the human creature. It is for this reason that the Person of the Son now exists as TWO NATURES rather than a single nature. As the Divine Creator the Person of the Son is YHWH but NOT Jesus of Nazareth, whilst as human creature the Person of the Son is Jesus of Nazareth but NOT YHWH. Hardly rocket science but it seems to be completely beyond the comprehension of by far the majority of Christians today who will insist on referring to the human creature Jesus of Nazareth as 'God' (?!) whilst not referring to the Divine Creator YHWH as 'a man' (?!). Is it any wonder that so many Christians are so utterly metaphysically confused that they seem to be woefully inadequate at mounting a spirited defense of authentic Biblical Christology?

Simonline.
 
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Simonline

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Jesus is both God and Man however, simonline. Both. God the Son didn't stop being Jesus; both Scripture and Tradition make that clear.

What you have said here just proves my point. The human creature, Jesus of Nazareth is human but he is NOT Divine. In the same way the Divine Creator YHWH is Divine but He is NOT human. If this is not the case then the terms 'Divine' and 'human' are utterly meaningless?!

I say again, it is the Person of the Son, incarnate as the Messiah/Christ, who is both Divine Creator [YHWH] and human creature [Jesus of Nazareth] but His existence as the human creature Jesus of Nazareth is totally different (but NOT separate) from that of His existence as the Divine Creator YHWH.

If Jesus is God then YHWH is human and there is absolutely no distinction whatsoever between Divine Creator and human creature (only a complete imbecile would make such and assertion)?!

I have NEVER claimed that the Messiah/Christ was not / is not both Divine Creator and human creature on a permanent basis. I do however insist, in accordance with the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, that the existence of the Messiah/Christ as the human creature Jesus of Nazareth is NOT the same as the existence of the Messiah/Christ as the Divine Creator YHWH. A distinction that many modern Christians today seem utterly incapable of making?!

Simonline.
 
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PaladinValer

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What you have said here just proves my point. The human creature, Jesus of Nazareth is human but he is NOT Divine. In the same way the Divine Creator YHWH is Divine but He is NOT human. If this is not the case then the terms 'Divine' and 'human' are utterly meaningless?!

Nestorianism.

Jesus is both God and Man. You are effectively giving the Christ multiple personalities: the Person of the Divine and the Person of the Humanity.

I say again, it is the Person of the Son, incarnate as the Messiah/Christ, who is both Divine Creator [YHWH] and human creature [Jesus of Nazareth] but His existence as the human creature Jesus of Nazareth is totally different (but NOT separate) from that of His existence as the Divine Creator YHWH.

You don't get incarnation then. Incarnation is defined as a divine being taking on a mortal form. Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu in Hinduism. In our Christian religion, Jesus is the Incarnation of God. He is both Divine and Man; to deny this is to deny orthodoxy.
 
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Ortho_Cat

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It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine. Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

Go Christian brothers! Reveal all to me that is hidden!

that is not orthodox theology...
 
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Ortho_Cat

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What you have said here just proves my point. The human creature, Jesus of Nazareth is human but he is NOT Divine. In the same way the Divine Creator YHWH is Divine but He is NOT human. If this is not the case then the terms 'Divine' and 'human' are utterly meaningless?!

not meaningless, simply incomprehensible co-existing as one, and personally, that's fine by me.
 
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