Evidently Indiana is making a law that says mothers who want abortions have to be given informed consent that includes letting them know the baby may feel pain when the doctor goes in to kill it. Is this a good idea or is it taking informed consent a bit too far?
Should women who get abortions be given informed consent?
- Thread starter Gabe7
- Start date
lux et lex
light and law
Well since it's an outright lie, and anti-choice propaganda, I'd say it's going too far.
Upvote
0
It's always dangerous to try to persuade people with lies. They don't trust you so fast next time you tell them something, for one thing.
Upvote
0
You people do realize they probably do feel pain because their nerves are developed by a certain amount of time. It was sort of a set up question.
One planned parenthood director actually quit when she saw on an ultrasound that a baby was trying to fight back as the doctor was killing it. She ran out screaming.
One planned parenthood director actually quit when she saw on an ultrasound that a baby was trying to fight back as the doctor was killing it. She ran out screaming.
Upvote
0
Any developmental biology textbook printed in the past decade or three.
Upvote
0
"a British report has undercut the case for the measure, finding that fetuses at 24 weeks or less do not feel pain and exist in a state of "sedation" even afterward."
Can a Fetus Feel Pain? U.K. Report Says No. - Newsweek
"Now, as well as discrediting the Nebraska law on scientific grounds, the British finding may reduce momentum for similar laws in other U.S. states. But the verdict of science tends to be in the eye of the beholder. As noted in The Wall Street Journal, another strain of research suggests that 18-week fetuses respond with flinching or other physiological changes during surgery. Pro-life groups have also countered that Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand, a leading researcher in pediatrics and anesthesia, was not consulted by the report's authors. Anand testified in Congress in 2005 that most fetuses at 20 weeks would perceive an abortion procedure as "painful, unpleasant, noxious stimulation."
Can a Fetus Feel Pain? U.K. Report Says No. - Newsweek
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
My math may be off but 24 weeks is not 9 months and they do abortions up to 9 months.
Upvote
0
You should be able to find it without too much trouble. I am displease with Google right now so I'm currently on strike until they stop their spywarious ways.
Upvote
0
I've posted this article from the New England Journal of Medicine here a while ago.
It's mostly concerned about neonates feeling pain a birth, but it also gives a very good overview of the development of the human brain in respect to feeling pain.
Basically it says that a fetus develops the physiological ability to feel pain starting with around week 20. That still doesn't mean that there is already a "self" there at that time to actually experience the pain, but at least the necessary nerve connections and brain structures develop around that time.
So judging by this, I'd argue that abortion does indeed become more and more problematic after this stage. So I'd be fine with banning abortions after week 20, as are a lot of other pro-choice people I know.
Films of fetuses supposedly screaming of fighting during an abortion depend purely on a special interpretation of the fetus' movements. They are intentionally missleading and certainly no help in making a sensible decision about abortion.
It's mostly concerned about neonates feeling pain a birth, but it also gives a very good overview of the development of the human brain in respect to feeling pain.
Basically it says that a fetus develops the physiological ability to feel pain starting with around week 20. That still doesn't mean that there is already a "self" there at that time to actually experience the pain, but at least the necessary nerve connections and brain structures develop around that time.
So judging by this, I'd argue that abortion does indeed become more and more problematic after this stage. So I'd be fine with banning abortions after week 20, as are a lot of other pro-choice people I know.
Films of fetuses supposedly screaming of fighting during an abortion depend purely on a special interpretation of the fetus' movements. They are intentionally missleading and certainly no help in making a sensible decision about abortion.
Upvote
0
Its good to know someone who can read the mind of a fetus so we can be reassured they are not fighting for their lives during such times when a licensed medical doctor is trying to kill them. They are probably merely acting on instinct to give the Dr. a hug, to ease the pain perhaps?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
The point is that there is no 'mind' there to experience pain, and earlier there is not enough neural development for any such reaction to be readable as 'pain' by the fetus. Not to be gross, but you can put a skinned dead eel in a hot frypan and it will writhe - do you think the eel is feeling pain and suffering from it?
Upvote
0
I'm not the one trying to read minds. I do however take what information we have on the development of the mind into account.
Upvote
0
They do? I thought unless in the case of death of the mother, 3rd trimester abortions are illegal.
As for this law, it's wrong because the state is ordering doctors to lie to their patients and if the doctor won't read this piece of paper outlining what the legislator wants them to say, they can lose their license.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
I've read articles that state pain receptors don't develop until around 29 weeks. Seems like there is a window of uncertainty there.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
