Scripture and Creation.

I'm no bible scholar, so I can't tell you exactly what they mean, but in regards to evolution and the age of the earth, they mean nothing.

Well, if iIknew this wasn't the bible I would take it at face value, but it contradicts real-world scientific evidence, so it is not to be taken literally. It is a myth.

ocean,

And don't forget that evolution too is a religion.


In Christ,

Hector

Hector, if so many people hadn't already showed you that evolution is a scientific belief instead of a religious one, you could say that honestly. You are losing the benefit of the doubt now, because you already know that "evolution is religion" is an untrue statement, and you make it anyway.

Originally posted by Micaiah
From posts in other threads, there are a wide range of views on what Scripture is actually saying in the accounts of Creation. Leaving aside scientific theories for the moment, consider Genesis 1.


Assuming this English text accurately reflects Scripture, give a summary of the clear assertions of these verses in your own words? Focus on the physical aspects of creation that have scientific implications.

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OK.

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

This is a theological statement that God created.  Period.  Science can't touch it. the rest of Genesis 1 is a specific method of creation, and that method can be tested.  However, let me caution you, falsifying the method does not affect the first sentence.  It only says that God didn't create one particular way.

Now, the scientific implications.  The text says that the earth was present at the beginning of the universe.  [However, data definitely shows that earth is a relative latecomer to the universe.  The universe began about 15 billion years ago, but the earth has only been around less than 5 billion.]

The text also has the earth existing without the rest of the solar system, particularly the sun, and the stars.  [That is contradicted by the data. ]

The text also has it that there was pre-existing matter and that creation was not ex nihilo.  The point about water is somewhat obscure, but is readily understandable in relation to the Enuma Elish.

Originally posted by Hector Medina
ocean,

And don't forget that evolution too is a religion.


In Christ,

Hector

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No disrespect ok, but your almost like a broken record. I have heard you say that evolution is a religion so many times that it proves that you have no idea what evolution is.

Is belief in gravity also a religion, since it's a scientific theory too?

Originally posted by wblastyn
Is belief in gravity also a religion, since it's a scientific theory too?

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Sure, why not, as long as it's a theory.

Originally posted by wblastyn
Is belief in gravity also a religion, since it's a scientific theory too?

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To Hector and Micaiah, apparently.  Anything that contradicts their literal interpretation of the Bible becomes a rival religion in their minds.

The fact that Genesis 1 says repeatedly "morning and evening" shows that those are not "ages" as many say based on the verse in I or II Peter (which btw, when people use that verse to support the idea that day = age, they take that verse completely out of context). This is saying exactly what it says its saying, that creation took 6 days.

Some more evidence to falsify evolution in the scripture falls in Genesis 3 in the Adamic Covenant. In that covenant, God says that "dust you are and dust you shall return." Because thats in the curse because of sin, that shows that there was no physical death (dust cannot mean spiritual death) before the fall. Sadly however, many Christians have compromised this belief as well in order to allow for Evolution.

Another is in Exodus 20:11. The whole verse (which is very crucial) says "For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Now, here it says explicitly that creation took six days. Now Evolutionist's before you say again that the word day means age, let me ask you something. Is Moses saying here that the Israelites are to rest and not work for an age (presumably for millions of years, as the other 6 "ages" would have to be right?)? Remember this is in the giving of the 4th commandment (To keep the sabbath day Holy).

Scripture clearly teaches that there was no death or suffering before the sin of Man, which Evolution requires. Scripture also clearly teaches that the earth was made in 6 days, not billions of years, which Evolution requires as well.

Originally posted by Athlon4all
The fact that Genesis 1 says repeatedly "morning and evening" shows that those are not "ages" as many say based on the verse in I or II Peter (which btw, when people use that verse to support the idea that day = age, they take that verse completely out of context). This is saying exactly what it says its saying, that creation took 6 days.

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Unless "morning" and "evening" are metaphorical terms for "beginning and end" (of the age/indefinite period of time).. 

Some more evidence to falsify evolution in the scripture falls in Genesis 3 in the Adamic Covenant. In that covenant, God says that "dust you are and dust you shall return." Because thats in the curse because of sin, that shows that there was no physical death (dust cannot mean spiritual death) before the fall.

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You are too eager to falsify. The result scientifically will be that you wind up falsifying your interpretation of the scripture. Scriptures are not empirical data & empirical data is required to falsify a scientific theory.

Anyway, you seem to have read quite a bit that isn't there into this passage... This passage doesn't at all say that there was no physical death before the fall. It doesn't even say that death is a result of the curse: it only says that sweat and toil are part of the curse and will remain with Adam until he dies.

Sadly however, many Christians have compromised this belief as well in order to allow for Evolution.

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Or to allow their beliefs to remain tenable in the face of scientific fact.

Another is in Exodus 20:11. The whole verse (which is very crucial) says "For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Now, here it says explicitly that creation took six days. Now Evolutionist's before you say again that the word day means age, let me ask you something. Is Moses saying here that the Israelites are to rest and not work for an age (presumably for millions of years, as the other 6 "ages" would have to be right?)? Remember this is in the giving of the 4th commandment (To keep the sabbath day Holy).

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Have you never heard of the Sabbath YEAR (Leviticus 25)? This is one of the things that led some theologians to the day/age position: the fact that the 6 'yom' of creation, and the 1 'yom' of rest are reflected in 'yom' of days, weeks, and years. 'Yom' is clearly used two mean "period of time" in at least some of its occurrences dealing with the sabbath/creation-week connection.

Scripture clearly teaches that there was no death or suffering before the sin of Man,

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Your interpretation of scripture clearly teaches that, but your interpretation may be faulty.

which Evolution requires. Scripture also clearly teaches that the earth was made in 6 days, not billions of years, which Evolution requires as well.

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Again "I believe scripture means..." works fine (although it makes your beliefs scientifically untenable)... "Scripture teaches" is overstating your case and putting your ideas as words into God's Mouth.

Originally posted by Micaiah
Genesis 1:1-5
    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 

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I believe the earth was spinning so fast that there was no light or day. As the spinrate on the earth began to slow down, then the first day was about 1/100,000 of a second long. The second day was 2/100,000 if a second long. The 100,000 day was one second long. After 6 million years the length of the day was one minute in length. After 360 million years the day was one hour in length. After about two billion years, there was enough day light for the grass and trees to begin to grow.

Originally posted by Micaiah

As I read it you are saying:

1. In the beginning God created heavens and earth.
2. The earth existed without the rest of the solar system.
3. There was pre-existing matter - creation was not ex nihilo.

I agree with point 1.
2. seems to relate to later verses.
3. Is not a clear Scriptural assertion.

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Let's be more precise in what I am saying.

1. An assertion that deities-- Elohim (the gods -- plural) -- exist and created the heavens and the earth.
2. Earth existed without solar system, moon, or stars.  And yes, that does come from later verses that assert that the sun and stars are not created until day 4.
3. There was no light. Light then existed at the verbal command of Elohim.
4. Light was divided from darkness. No location of light and darkness given.
5. The earth consists of matter that Elohim does not have to speak into existence.The matter is said to be water.
6. Speaking light into existence takes 24 hours or less. 

READ:

From:

www.webester.com


Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective



Evolution IS very much a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

wblastyn ,

No since Gravioty is and always was here(we feel and expirence it)its not quite religious.
Evolution has never been seen so it is religious just like God has
never been physicaly seen.


Sinc.

Hector

PLEASE NOTE:

The definition did not apply to Micro-evolution which does occur:
Diffrent Breeds of Dogs,Cats,etc......

Changes within kinds which is really variation and is scientific.

God Bless,

Hector