As per request, "Y'hoshua, There's something about that name..."

Elionai

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In another thread I asked Yonah what his thoughts were on the below, I'm hoping he'll repeat what he said and then we'll continue as it sounds like he has more to contribute...

If Jesus is transliterated from the Greek, Ἰησοῦς, which in turn (I have rightly or wrongly been led to believe) is hellenised from the Hebrew יְהוֹשֻׁעַ which again I believe is Joshua, would the Anglicised alphabet transliteration (for those wanting to use a Hebrew name for Jesus) of Y'hoshua be acceptable in terms of the pronunciation if not the spelling? If the spelling is wrong, then what would it be?

Please forgive my ignorance, my main aim with TJCII is really to remove replacement theology, not be a PhD or Scholar, but I am here to communicate and learn.
 

yonah_mishael

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Please forgive my ignorance, my main aim with TJCII is really to remove replacement theology, not be a PhD or Scholar, but I am here to communicate and learn.

I'm not sure what TCJII is. :blush:

Yeshua, Yehoshua and Y'hoshua are perfectly acceptable transliterations of יֵשׁוּעַ and יְהוֹשֻעַ. Most in the Messianic world seem to use Yeshua. In the non-Messianic Jewish world, it's more common to refer to Jesus as יֵשׁוּ הַנּוֹצְרִי (Yeshu Ha-Notzri) or just Yeshu. When you say "Yeshu" in Hebrew, it only refers to Jesus. Some in the Messianics think this is an insulting name, so they don't use it.

Do you have a specific question about how something converted from Hebrew into Greek and later into Latin?
 
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Zec 6:(11) “And you shall take the silver and gold, make a crown, and set it on the head of Yehoshua the son of Yehotsaḏaq, the high priest, (12) and shall speak to him, saying, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts, saying, “See, the Man whose name is the Branch1! And from His place He shall branch out, and He shall build the Hĕḵal of יהוה. Footnote 1See 3:8.
 
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Elionai

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I'm not sure what TCJII is. :blush:

Yeshua, Yehoshua and Y'hoshua are perfectly acceptable transliterations of יֵשׁוּעַ and יְהוֹשֻעַ. Most in the Messianic world seem to use Yeshua. In the non-Messianic Jewish world, it's more common to refer to Jesus as יֵשׁוּ הַנּוֹצְרִי (Yeshu Ha-Notzri) or just Yeshu. When you say "Yeshu" in Hebrew, it only refers to Jesus. Some in the Messianics think this is an insulting name, so they don't use it.

Do you have a specific question about how something converted from Hebrew into Greek and later into Latin?
TJCII stands for Toward Jerusalem Council 2 - a cross-denominational movement to remove replacement theology - I came to this forum after a Google search found that Visionary had created a thread which seemed like there was some keen interest in it, so I joined initially to prompt people to take a look at the new UK site.

I have heard (which you briefly mention insulting names) that Yeshu or something similar has been coined to mean 'may his name be blotted out'.

I asked you about the name and rendering because I picked up on all the talk about the letter 'e' in Hebrew and it looked like some people had the opinion that Yeshua the word was not accurate enough and I have seen people use alef in place of the letter e and so on...

I was mainly curious, from your position, what you would know and/or think.
 
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yonah_mishael

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TJCII stands for Toward Jerusalem Council 2 - a cross-denominational movement to remove replacement theology - I came to this forum after a Google search found that Visionary had created a thread which seemed like there was some keen interest in it, so I joined initially to prompt people to take a look at the new UK site.

I have heard (which you briefly mention insulting names) that Yeshu or something similar has been coined to mean 'may his name be blotted out'.

I asked you about the name and rendering because I picked up on all the talk about the letter 'e' in Hebrew and it looked like some people had the opinion that Yeshua the word was not accurate enough and I have seen people use alef in place of the letter e and so on...

I was mainly curious, from your position, what you would know and/or think.

MTAA uses transliterations for a theoretical level of Hebrew from like 3000 years ago or more. The Hebrew that we use has a full range of vowel sounds, and it's much closer to the Hebrew of the first century, for sure. While pre-historic Hebrew may have only had three vowel sounds, there's no indication that this was the form of Hebrew in the period of the Second Temple.

I've also heard that "Yeshu" (that is ישו) was an acronym for ימק שמו וזכרו (yimak shmo ve-zichro), "May his name and memory be blotted out." I'm not sure that this is what it meant originally, though it's certain that some people take it to mean that today.

All of the Messianic Jewish writings that I've seen based in Israel use the form ישוע Yeshua, which was a name from Aramaic that was adopted into Jewish usage after the Babylonian captivity. The first high priest after the Exile was named Yeshua.

Regards,
YM
 
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yonah_mishael

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Yehoshua should be Yahoshua. Anyone know why? I'm sure a few know here.
machar = he sold
machárti = I sold
m'chartém = you (pl.) sold

Know why m'chartém loses its first syllable?
 
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yonah_mishael

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Shamash of Yeshua,

I really am curious if you understand Hebrew syllabification rules and what happens when accents shift in the Hebrew language. Can you tell me why we say what I've placed above?

Why is it? :
מָכַר ("he sold")
מָכַרְתִּי ("I sold")
מְכַרְתֶּם ("you (m.p.) sold")

How do Israelis get around shortening the first syllable of מכרתם (and all qal verbs, for that matter)? They seem to want a full vowel, מָכרתם. So, what do they do to make sure that happens?

How does this apply to what happens to the shortened form of the Tetragrammaton when it becomes the propretonic syllable, as in יהושע, or even further back, as in יהוצדק?

The problem I find is that those who make statements like "It should be said THIS WAY in Hebrew" generally don't know Hebrew or the reasons why we say that it's written as it is.

Do you know?
 
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A_Pioneer

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I don't know Hebrew, but Y H V H said he is our Salvation, Yeshua never says he is --- (-Y H V H-). IMHO, Yeshua is the vehicle of our deliverance. G-d's salvation is apparent all through the scriptures, not just the NT. The promise of Israel's salvation is a given! Both old and new, two witnesses.
 
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