God is a divine family - not a Trinity

Phaedron777

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This work comes from reluctant messenger. Pasted for qoutation (if desired) but it reads better at the source. http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doctrines-Christianity009.htm

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth. 2 And the Earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. KJV
The English word for God here comes from the Hebrew word elohiym {el-o-heem'}. This is not a singular noun, it is a plural noun. Strong's Concordance notes that elohiym is the plural of elowahh [GOD]. This is why God says "us" later in Genesis. God refers to God in the plural.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: … KJV
The Hebrew word elohiym is a uni-plural noun. Examples of English uni-plural nouns would be group, church or family. In one family, there is more than one member.
John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? NIV
God the Father and Christ are one. They are eternal beings that make up the God family and they are giving mankind the opportunity to join them in eternity as members of the God family. The Trinity doctrine teaches a closed Godhead that excludes humans. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is the power of God.
Lucifer tried to take over heaven. He wanted to go to heaven. He has deceived mankind into thinking they will go to heaven. The doctrine of the Trinity also applies to Satan. At the beginning, before his rebellion, Lucifer was part of a Trinity. Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer were the three Archangels, a closed triad that executed the government of God among the Angels. By deceiving the world into believing that God is a Trinity, Satan is blocking mankind from understanding the awesome divine destiny awaiting everybody. A Trinity of Eternal God persons is closed and cannot be expanded like a family can. Satan was part of a closed triad, but God is not. How did the doctrine of the Trinity become part of Christianity today? Is it scriptural? Was this doctrine taught in the early church by the apostles? Many authorities contend that the doctrine of the Trinity is not of scriptural origin.

History of the Trinity

Trinity Definition: Within the nature of the One True God, there simultaneously exists three eternal Persons, namely, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All three Persons are co-equals in all the attributes of the Divine Nature.
This definition defines God, not as a family, but as a committee. But how did this doctrine come to exist in modern Christianity? In the preface to Edward Gibbon's History of Christianity, it reads:
If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians … was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the Trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.
Most theologians know that the Trinity doctrine is not scriptural.
Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon.
But nowhere do we find any Trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead.
All Pagan religions from the time of Babylon have adopted in one form or another a Trinity doctrine or a triad or trinity of gods. In Babylon it was Nimrod, Semiramas, and Tammuz. In Egypt it was Osiris, Isis, and Horus. Within Israel paganism it was Kether, Hokhmah, and Binah. In Plato's philosophy it was the Unknown Father, Nous/Logos, and the world soul. In the book, A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity:
We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy … The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists.
Historians also know that the Trinity doctrine is not authorized in the New Testament.
There is no evidence the Apostles of Jesus ever heard of a Trinity.
The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Neither the word Trinity itself, nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language. The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy.
Long before the founding of Christianity the idea of a triune god or a god-in-three persons was a common belief in ancient religions. Although many of these religions had many minor deities, they distinctly acknowledged that there was one supreme God who consisted of three persons or essences. The Babylonians used an equilateral triangle to represent this three-in-one god, now the symbol of the modern three-in-one believers. The Greek triad was composed of Zeus, Athena and Apollo. These three were said by the pagans to 'agree in one.' One of the largest pagan temples built by the Romans was constructed at Ballbek (situated in present day Lebanon) to their Trinity of Jupiter, Mercury and Venus. In Babylon the planet Venus was revered as special and was worshipped as a Trinity consisting of Venus, the moon and the sun. This triad became the Babylonian holy Trinity in the fourteenth century before Christ. Although other religions for thousands of years before Christ was born worshipped a triune god, the Trinity was not a part of Christian dogma and formal documents of the first three centuries after Christ. That there was no formal, established doctrine of the Trinity until the fourth century is a fully documented historical fact. Clearly, historians of church dogma and systematic theologians agree that the idea of a Christian Trinity was not a part of the first century church. The twelve apostles never subscribed to it or received revelation about it. So how then did a trinitarian doctrine come about? It gradually evolved and gained momentum in late first, second and third centuries as pagans, who had converted to Christianity, brought to Christianity some of their pagan beliefs and practices.
When we turn to the problem of the doctrine of the Trinity, we are confronted by a peculiarly contradictory situation. On the one hand, the history of Christian theology and of dogma teaches us to regard the dogma of the Trinity as the distinctive element in the Christian idea of God, that which distinguishes it from the idea of God in Judaism and in Islam, and indeed, in all forms of rational Theism. Judaism, Islam, and rational Theism are Unitarian. On the other hand, we must honestly admit that the doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the early Christian-New Testament-message. Certainly, it cannot be denied that not only the word "Trinity", but even the EXPLICIT IDEA of the Trinity is absent from the apostolic witness of the faith.. The doctrine of the Trinity itself, however, is not a Biblical Doctrine.
Since the doctrine is unscriptural, it took an emperor to make Christianity start embracing the concept.
It was at this stage that Constantine made his momentous suggestion. Might not the relationship of Son to Father be expressed by the term homoousios ("of the same substance"). Its use, however, by the Sabellian bishops of Libya had been condemned by Dionysius of Alexandria in the 260s, and, in a different sense, its use by Paul of Samosata had been condemned by the Council of Antioch in 268. It was thus a "loaded" word as well as being unscriptural. Why Constantine put it forward we do not know. The possibility is that once again he was prompted by Hosius, and he may have been using it as a "translation" of the traditional view held in the West, that the Trinity was composed of "Three Persons in one substance," without inquiring further into the meaning of these terms. The Emperor had spoken, and no one dared touch the creed during his lifetime. The great majority of the Eastern bishops found themselves in a false position.
There is only one passage in the Authorized Version of the Bible used by Trinitarians to support their view.
I John 5:7-8, For there are three that bear record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in Earth], the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. AV
Editors added the bracketed words in the early fourth century to the Latin Vulgate translation. They are not in the older Greek manuscripts. For this reason, modern translations omit them. Bible commentaries explain that these words were never in the apostle John's manuscript or any existing early copies of it.
How does the Trinity Doctrine apply to mankind?
God's PURPOSE in having created humanity – is to reproduce GOD.
God is not merely one Person, nor even limited to a "Trinity," but God is FAMILY. The doctrine of the Trinity is not a family.
This former Lucifer, who became Satan, has so cleverly DECEIVED all humanity that almost no one today knows that God is, actually, a Divine FAMILY. One Family, God IS a Family. That Family is one GOD. Satan has deceived people into almost every other belief. Perhaps the largest number have been deceived into believing God is a "Trinity."
In order to understand how mankind becomes part of the divine family, one must understand the Plan of God.
 
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Phaedron777

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[SIZE=+1]http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doctrines-Christianity004.htm

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION

This statement by John is profoundly mystical for it introduces two concepts. Most Christians recognize the part where Christ is introduced as being divine and as the Creator God. What few recognize is that the very concept of a beginning is a hint of a deep spiritual truth. What is commonly recognized as reality had a beginning. The part of God that created had a beginning. This beginning was the Word. The subtle truth that this verse also reveals is that there is a beginningless uncreated God. What we recognize as Christ is the personal God that before the beginning was a meaningless concept. In other words, before there was a creation, there was no Personal God, only the Transcendent Uncreate Absolute was.

[/SIZE]"The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his name." -Exodus 15:3
 
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[SIZE=+1]


In other words, before there was a creation, there was no Personal God, only the Transcendent Uncreate Absolute was.

[/SIZE]"The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his name." -Exodus 15:3
We know this as either the Monad, or the unbegotten Father. The Sethians referred to the Monad as a being so Great that it wasn't even right to think of it as a God.
 
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gort

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[SIZE=+1]http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doctrines-Christianity004.htm

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION

This statement by John is profoundly mystical for it introduces two concepts. Most Christians recognize the part where Christ is introduced as being divine and as the Creator God. What few recognize is that the very concept of a beginning is a hint of a deep spiritual truth. What is commonly recognized as reality had a beginning. The part of God that created had a beginning. This beginning was the Word. The subtle truth that this verse also reveals is that there is a beginningless uncreated God. What we recognize as Christ is the personal God that before the beginning was a meaningless concept. In other words, before there was a creation, there was no Personal God, only the Transcendent Uncreate Absolute was.

[/SIZE]"The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his name." -Exodus 15:3

You should read Robertsons Word Pictures concerning John 1 to find that the greek used denotes no inkling of an idea of origin for either God or the Logos whatsoever.
 
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Rotherham) John 1:1 Originally, was, the Word, and, the Word, was, with God; and, the Word, was, God.

New Testament Greek for ' the beginning '
746 arche {ar-khay'}
from 756; TDNT - 1:479,81; n f
AV - beginning 40, principality 8, corner 2, first 2, misc 6; 58
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing
(strong's number 746)


Hummmm, originally was the word, the plan, the verb, or the word in action.

before that there was no word, plan, verb, or word in action.

originally there was world war II, before world war II there was no world war II

Originally there was the law, before that there was no law.


now for trinitarian reasoning.

originally there was the word, the plan, the verb, or the word in action, before that there was the word,, the plan , the verb, or the word in action.

makes as much sense as 3 is one.
 
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gort

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Rotherham) John 1:1 Originally, was, the Word, and, the Word, was, with God; and, the Word, was, God.




Hummmm, originally was the word, the plan, the verb, or the word in action.

before that there was no word, plan, verb, or word in action.

originally there was world war II, before world war II there was no world war II

Originally there was the law, before that there was no law.


now for trinitarian reasoning.

originally there was the word, the plan, the verb, or the word in action, before that there was the word,, the plan , the verb, or the word in action.

makes as much sense as 3 is one.

hmmm, could'nt have been that originally; there are no commas in koine greek. Looks like Rotherham has penciled in a few extra tidbits to skew the translation. Sad. With all those commas I can't make heads nor tails of what Rotherham is trying to say at all. Nothing but gibberish.

Does Rotherham also make the same nonsense in Genesis 1.1? I suppose the beginning spoken of there was also the beginning of God too?
 
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This work comes from reluctant messenger. Pasted for qoutation (if desired) but it reads better at the source. The Doctrine of the Trinity

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth. 2 And the Earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. KJV
The English word for God here comes from the Hebrew word elohiym {el-o-heem'}. This is not a singular noun, it is a plural noun. Strong's Concordance notes that elohiym is the plural of elowahh [GOD]. This is why God says "us" later in Genesis. God refers to God in the plural.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: … KJV
The Hebrew word elohiym is a uni-plural noun. Examples of English uni-plural nouns would be group, church or family. In one family, there is more than one member.
John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? NIV
God the Father and Christ are one. They are eternal beings that make up the God family and they are giving mankind the opportunity to join them in eternity as members of the God family. The Trinity doctrine teaches a closed Godhead that excludes humans. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is the power of God.
Lucifer tried to take over heaven. He wanted to go to heaven. He has deceived mankind into thinking they will go to heaven. The doctrine of the Trinity also applies to Satan. At the beginning, before his rebellion, Lucifer was part of a Trinity. Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer were the three Archangels, a closed triad that executed the government of God among the Angels. By deceiving the world into believing that God is a Trinity, Satan is blocking mankind from understanding the awesome divine destiny awaiting everybody. A Trinity of Eternal God persons is closed and cannot be expanded like a family can. Satan was part of a closed triad, but God is not. How did the doctrine of the Trinity become part of Christianity today? Is it scriptural? Was this doctrine taught in the early church by the apostles? Many authorities contend that the doctrine of the Trinity is not of scriptural origin.

History of the Trinity

Trinity Definition: Within the nature of the One True God, there simultaneously exists three eternal Persons, namely, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All three Persons are co-equals in all the attributes of the Divine Nature.
This definition defines God, not as a family, but as a committee. But how did this doctrine come to exist in modern Christianity? In the preface to Edward Gibbon's History of Christianity, it reads:
If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians … was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the Trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.
Most theologians know that the Trinity doctrine is not scriptural.
Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon.
But nowhere do we find any Trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead.
All Pagan religions from the time of Babylon have adopted in one form or another a Trinity doctrine or a triad or trinity of gods. In Babylon it was Nimrod, Semiramas, and Tammuz. In Egypt it was Osiris, Isis, and Horus. Within Israel paganism it was Kether, Hokhmah, and Binah. In Plato's philosophy it was the Unknown Father, Nous/Logos, and the world soul. In the book, A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity:
We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy … The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists.
Historians also know that the Trinity doctrine is not authorized in the New Testament.
There is no evidence the Apostles of Jesus ever heard of a Trinity.
The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Neither the word Trinity itself, nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language. The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy.
Long before the founding of Christianity the idea of a triune god or a god-in-three persons was a common belief in ancient religions. Although many of these religions had many minor deities, they distinctly acknowledged that there was one supreme God who consisted of three persons or essences. The Babylonians used an equilateral triangle to represent this three-in-one god, now the symbol of the modern three-in-one believers. The Greek triad was composed of Zeus, Athena and Apollo. These three were said by the pagans to 'agree in one.' One of the largest pagan temples built by the Romans was constructed at Ballbek (situated in present day Lebanon) to their Trinity of Jupiter, Mercury and Venus. In Babylon the planet Venus was revered as special and was worshipped as a Trinity consisting of Venus, the moon and the sun. This triad became the Babylonian holy Trinity in the fourteenth century before Christ. Although other religions for thousands of years before Christ was born worshipped a triune god, the Trinity was not a part of Christian dogma and formal documents of the first three centuries after Christ. That there was no formal, established doctrine of the Trinity until the fourth century is a fully documented historical fact. Clearly, historians of church dogma and systematic theologians agree that the idea of a Christian Trinity was not a part of the first century church. The twelve apostles never subscribed to it or received revelation about it. So how then did a trinitarian doctrine come about? It gradually evolved and gained momentum in late first, second and third centuries as pagans, who had converted to Christianity, brought to Christianity some of their pagan beliefs and practices.
When we turn to the problem of the doctrine of the Trinity, we are confronted by a peculiarly contradictory situation. On the one hand, the history of Christian theology and of dogma teaches us to regard the dogma of the Trinity as the distinctive element in the Christian idea of God, that which distinguishes it from the idea of God in Judaism and in Islam, and indeed, in all forms of rational Theism. Judaism, Islam, and rational Theism are Unitarian. On the other hand, we must honestly admit that the doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the early Christian-New Testament-message. Certainly, it cannot be denied that not only the word "Trinity", but even the EXPLICIT IDEA of the Trinity is absent from the apostolic witness of the faith.. The doctrine of the Trinity itself, however, is not a Biblical Doctrine.
Since the doctrine is unscriptural, it took an emperor to make Christianity start embracing the concept.
It was at this stage that Constantine made his momentous suggestion. Might not the relationship of Son to Father be expressed by the term homoousios ("of the same substance"). Its use, however, by the Sabellian bishops of Libya had been condemned by Dionysius of Alexandria in the 260s, and, in a different sense, its use by Paul of Samosata had been condemned by the Council of Antioch in 268. It was thus a "loaded" word as well as being unscriptural. Why Constantine put it forward we do not know. The possibility is that once again he was prompted by Hosius, and he may have been using it as a "translation" of the traditional view held in the West, that the Trinity was composed of "Three Persons in one substance," without inquiring further into the meaning of these terms. The Emperor had spoken, and no one dared touch the creed during his lifetime. The great majority of the Eastern bishops found themselves in a false position.
There is only one passage in the Authorized Version of the Bible used by Trinitarians to support their view.
I John 5:7-8, For there are three that bear record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in Earth], the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. AV
Editors added the bracketed words in the early fourth century to the Latin Vulgate translation. They are not in the older Greek manuscripts. For this reason, modern translations omit them. Bible commentaries explain that these words were never in the apostle John's manuscript or any existing early copies of it.
How does the Trinity Doctrine apply to mankind?
God's PURPOSE in having created humanity – is to reproduce GOD.
God is not merely one Person, nor even limited to a "Trinity," but God is FAMILY. The doctrine of the Trinity is not a family.
This former Lucifer, who became Satan, has so cleverly DECEIVED all humanity that almost no one today knows that God is, actually, a Divine FAMILY. One Family, God IS a Family. That Family is one GOD. Satan has deceived people into almost every other belief. Perhaps the largest number have been deceived into believing God is a "Trinity."
In order to understand how mankind becomes part of the divine family, one must understand the Plan of God.

What utter metaphysical nonsense. God as Absolute Reality is a Single Entity (Ex.3:13-15; Isa.43:10-13) Who just happens to Exist as Tri-Personal rather than Mono-Personal. God is NOT a mathematical set or group ('family') consisting of multiple finite personal entities (i.e. tritheism or polytheism) since that is metaphysically absurd.

If God is a 'family' rather than a single Entity then why does He refer to Himself in the First Person Singular ['I'] as a SINGLE Entity (Ex.3:13-15; Isa.43:10-13) and NOT in the Third Person Plural ['WE']?!

[Someone else who builds an entire heretical theology on carefully selected passage(s) of Scripture whilst simultaneously ignoring other parts of Scripture that clearly refute such absurd heresy?!]

Simonline.
 
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Jpark

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God's PURPOSE in having created humanity – is to reproduce GOD.

God's purpose in having created humanity is for glory to Himself.

Rev. 4;11 "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created."

Ezek. 39:21 "And I will set My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed and My hand which I have laid on them.

The purpose of rebellion
 
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Phaedron777, please stop clinging to the arguments of man. Return to your first love, the love of God's ways. Men are wicked as are our arguments, so take refuge from those arguments. Forget about all of your heavy loads, because Jesus yoke is easy and light. You need his rest. Drop this whole distraction and pursue righteousness alone. Study the laws of the LORD, the psalms, the proverbs and all the rest of the Bible and scour it for spiritual strength. Do not struggle over the trinity and various other trifles of words. There are no wheels or devices to make the gospel prosperous, just a soft heart. There is no assurance in Haley's Bible Handbook, just more questions. Go back to the basics. Save yourself from this wicked generation.

Psalm 1: "Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night."

Proverbs 2
5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 he stores up sound wisdom for the upright; he is a shield to those who walk in integrity,

Luke 10
41 But the Lord answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things;
42 one thing is needful. Mary has chosen the good portion, which shall not be taken away from her."
 
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hmmm, could'nt have been that originally; there are no commas in koine greek. Looks like Rotherham has penciled in a few extra tidbits to skew the translation. Sad. With all those commas I can't make heads nor tails of what Rotherham is trying to say at all. Nothing but gibberish.

Does Rotherham also make the same nonsense in Genesis 1.1? I suppose the beginning spoken of there was also the beginning of God too?

Rotherham's translation is called the Emphasised Bible, because Rotherham puts notattion in it indicatiing where emphasis is required by the Greek and hebrew.
Rotherham didn't put all those commas in the verse, the web site that quoted him did, here is what Rotherham really wrote (I have the printed book). .

(Rotherham) John 1:1 ||Originally|| was |the Word, and ||the Word|| was | with God; and |the Word| was ||God||.

Double brackets is his indication of strong emphasis, single bracket around a word or phrase indicates less strong emphasis but emphasis.
Where Rotherham indicates that he believes the greek indicates there should be emphasis seems should be seems totally appropriate to me. Read it with the correct emphasis and it's more powerfull.

On the opening page of Rotherham's translation he put

A TRANSLATION DESIGNED
TO SET FORTH THE EXACT MEANING, THE PROPER
TERMINOLOGY, AND THE GRAPHIC STYLE OF THE
SACRED ORIGINAL

Rotherham then devotes several chapters to explaining his notations and therie meaning, and he devotes an entire chapter to explaining his emphasis notations. He explains how emphasis is authoritativly indicated in scripture. For example one indicator of where stress should be placed is the order of the Words in Greek or Hebrew, this would not be apparent to someone reading the English tran slation ,but is clear to the Greek oor Hebrew speaker of those days. and he gives other reasons as well.


ACtually though when I read it I usually ignore his emphasis notations.



Gen. 1.1 says God created heaven and earth in the beginning,
the creation, not god was in the beginning, and no one would take gen. 1.1 to mean tha god created heaven and earth before the beginning, yet you take john 1.1 to mean that the word of god or plan of god, or word of god in action was before the beginning. THus making beginning or originally meaningless to you in john 1.1.
 
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