Happy Ishtar... Should Christians celebrate Ishtar?

DamianWarS

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It is that time again.

When people celebrate Ishtar, with rabbits, chicks, and painted eggs. She is of course the goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex.

What do you think? Does God wink at these pagan practices?

so are christmas trees and wedding rings. The name for "Sunday" points to the worship of the sun but we Christians have embraced it as our "Holy day". The very English word for "God" has pagan roots to it. If you do enough digging you will find American and even Christian culture is laced with a plethora of pagan systems.

God doesn't care about the form what he cares about is what it means us. Many times, like the days of the week, their root is meaningless and they are just words or lost values. If you celebrate easter by worshipping Ishtar then of course that is a problem but if you like to celebrate it because of chocolate and bunnies then the goddess of Ishtar is nothing and removed from the holiday. I can even reject the Christian celebration as well (not reject Christ or that he rose from the dead just the annual celebration of this) and treat these days as any other. The annual celebration of Christ's death and resurrection is not what defines us but instead it is Christ only that defines us. Forms are how we express this definition, not always directly but still always present. Forms do not dictate who we are no matter if the form is pagan or christian and we can still worship God through these forms.

Colossians 2: 14-17
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Romans 14:5-9
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
 
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Lionroot

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DamianWarS said:
so are christmas trees and wedding rings. The name for "Sunday" points to the worship of the sun but we Christians have embraced it as our "Holy day". The very English word for "God" has pagan roots to it. If you do enough digging you will find American and even Christian culture is laced with a plethora of pagan systems.

I think that is called equivocation.

DamianWarS said:
God doesn't care about the form what he cares about is what it means us.

Really? He used to.

Deuteronomy 12:4
4 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way.

When did God become so liberal?

Isaiah 4:1
 
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OllieFranz

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Really? He used to.

Deuteronomy 12:4
4 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way.

When did God become so liberal?

In the Torah, and especially in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, God is telling the nation of Israel how to worship in the Tabernacle (and later, in the Temple) under the Aaronic priesthood. But we are not under the priesthood of Aaron, but under a new priesthood, headed by Jesus and foreshadowed by the priesthood of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 6-7, passim).

Just one example of the difference: would you and your church turn away from worship someone who had been "wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off" (Deuteronomy 23:1)?

Isaiah 4:1

An odd passage to use to make your point:
And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
Isaiah 4:1
While it does seem to refer to those who marry the One Man in name only, but continue to support themselves in their old, accustomed style, we should look at how Isaiah continues that thought.
In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth [shall be] excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. And it shall come to pass, [that he that is] left in Zion, and [he that] remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, [even] every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory [shall be] a defence. And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
Isaiah 4:2-6
So these women, assuming that they are figures of gentile worshipers, are accepted into the New Jerusalem, purged of their blood-guilt, and brought under the protection of the Prescence in the Tabernacle. It seems that God accepts their faith as real, despite the "foreign" customs that they bring into the relationship.

Note: I am not claiming to know whether the analogy of these women to foreign worshipers is true; but if, as you implied, it can be read that way, the conclusion must be that it is OK for them to borrow trappings from their old worship.
 
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Polycarp1

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It is that time again.

When people celebrate Ishtar, with rabbits, chicks, and painted eggs. She is of course the goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex.

What do you think? Does God wink at these pagan practices?

No one celebrates "Ishtar", with secular or with Christian trimmings. From earliest times, Christians have celebrated, weekly and annually, the Resurrection of our Lord, the annual celebration being tied to the Jewish Pesach (Passover) by names such as Pascha, Pasqua, etc. In one language, English, the term for the annual celebration of the Resurrection is "Easter." St. Bede the Venerable, early historian of Anglo-Saxon Christianity, claims that this was originally the name of an Anglo-Saxon deity. No other evidence of Eostre's existence, even as a mythical being, has ever shown up. There is absolutely no connection between the Anglo-Saxon "Eostre" (if in fact there ever was such a deity) and the Babylonian queen goddess Ishtar beyond a chance similarity in sounds; one might as well equate either to Erik Estrada as to each other.
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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It is that time again.

When people celebrate Ishtar, with rabbits, chicks, and painted eggs. She is of course the goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex.

What do you think? Does God wink at these pagan practices?

Easter isn't a pagan practice.

Easter is what Anglo-Saxons call Pascha, the celebration of the Resurrection of our Lord. Just because two tribes who were Christianized in northern Europe (and whose language we now are speaking) called Pascha Easter does not make it pagan in any way. Pascha was celebrated long before they became Christians.

Ishtar was actually Babylonian, which makes no sense... except the names sound familiar. The argument that the English "Easter" as anything to do with "Ishtar" other than sounding similar is baseless and a little humorous.

The Resurrection was, obviously, about new life. Eggs represent tombs from which comes life. Rabbits and the like represent the hidden life of winter that finds itself blossoming in spring.
 
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It is that time again.

When people celebrate Ishtar, with rabbits, chicks, and painted eggs. She is of course the goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex.

What do you think? Does God wink at these pagan practices?

It's not about pagan practises it is about children. Children love it and anything against it is not necessary. Don't be the grinch who stole easter.

It's not important how we perceive it. It is important how children perceive. It's fun for them.
 
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revanneosl

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You do realize that this is only a "problem" to people who speak Germanic languages don't you? And that Germanic languages are only one, small subset of the Indo-European language families. And that 54% of the world speaks languages that aren't part of the Indo-European language family.

Really not an issue for most people.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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It is that time again.

When people celebrate Ishtar, with rabbits, chicks, and painted eggs. She is of course the goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex.

What do you think? Does God wink at these pagan practices?

I wasn't aware that the Assyrians were big on painted eggs.

Also, apart from pure conjecture, there's no reason to say Eostre and Ishtar are etymologically related.

If it makes you feel better, because some people get grumpy at the thought that people actually enjoy celebrating their faith, I don't say "Easter" all that often, instead I say Pascha, which is the historic and more ancient word to use to celebrate the Resurrection.

This is what I plan on celebrating on Pascha:

resurrection.jpg


-CryptoLutheran
 
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Happy Ishtar... Should Christians celebrate Ishtar?

No, and I don't know anyone who does.
It is that time again.
:confused: You celebrate to a Assyrian goddess during April?
When people celebrate Ishtar, with rabbits, chicks, and painted eggs. She is of course the goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex.
Who celebrates Ishtar that way? The Assyrians didn't. Do you worship Ishtar when you have sex with your spouse?
What do you think? Does God wink at these pagan practices?
Are things pagan because you want to connect the practices, in some strange way?

Stop believing in all the misinformation that people put out there, in cyberspace for gullible people.
 
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DamianWarS

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the op has it wrong with this whole Ishtar = Easter thing. There may be some pagan roots with easter but its not with Ishtar its with Ēostre. What's the difference, Ishtar is a Babylonian goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex as the op has suggested and Ēostre is rooted in some sort of germanic source as the goddess of dawn which of course makes a little more sense given the inherit part of spring time with in Easter.

Regardless what goddess that a small group of pagans 1500+ years celebrated Easter has nothing to do with Ēostre. The day is only what we make of it and if we make it into a pagan holiday than that's what it is. Possibly like Christmas our "goddess" is of presents and selfish desires but that concept is rooted in our culture that is a daily battle not isolated to a specific holiday and certainly nothing to do with Ēostre.

God came to us in human form as a Child. God is not a child, nor is he a human but he became a human form to bridge that gap between man and God. Not only through his death and resurrection and the forgiveness of our sins, which indeed is a vital part, but also simply from the fact that we relate to God because Jesus was one of us and not just a unknown God in the cosmos. God is about relationships and that is the point of Jesus to restore our relationship with God.

Holidays, festivals, traditional celebrations, and the like, are just forms that cultures inevitably produce as a mechanism to express themselves and their understanding. Sometimes they are rooted in pagan ideas but can be redeemed to still express worship to God without loosing the form. All reflect our undeniable limitations as humans. But this is how God created us and as such we have an explainable need to worship and look to our creator through various forms like holiday celebrations. Cultures have corrupted this natural draw to God into heretical reasoning but these "forms", which are deeply rooted in us and passed down through generation to generation, is how we naturally express ourselves. Instead of pointing to why the origins are corrupted let's redeem these forms so we can use them express our natural desire toward God.

Walk into any North American church today and try and find biblical support for most of the practices we do. The truth is many things we do are not found in the bible they are just how church is done and how our parents did it and their parents did it before them yet we will defined things like "wearing a suit to church" or "bowing our head in prayer" like they supersede the bible. Jews didn't pray with their heads bowed down they prayed very similar to how Muslims pray today with their eyes open, their arms and hands open looking up to the sky. But the method how we pray doesn't save us, what's important is the condition of our hearts during prayer, or when we are wearing a suit, or when we express whatever cultural form.

Forms are just tools we use to express our culture but we can use these forms to express our worship and obedience to God. God won't have become human in our our limitations and flaws if he did not recognize our need to relate. Forms are ways we need to relate and express ourselves. It doesn't matter if Easter has more pagan roots than Christian because in the end my heart expresses worship to God through the form no matter how incomplete or limited the form is or how corrupted it started. Easter is what I make of it just as every day is what I make of it.

Romans 14:5-9
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

[whoever celebrates Easter, does so for the Lord]
 
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seashale76

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Yeah- we don't celebrate Ishtar. You're appallingly misinformed. EVERYTHING during Pascha in the Orthodox Church is based on scripture. I have heard more scripture in church since I've been Orthodox than in 23 years as a Pentecostal/Baptist hybrid. At Holy Pascha we celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is NOTHING pagan about ANYTHING we're doing in church. I outright challenge anyone who says otherwise to come and see for yourself. We WANT YOU TO COME AND SEE. We have nothing to hide. The Truth is that compelling. To say that we're worshipping some goddess is a complete lie and you are bearing false witness and are assuredly speaking out of total ignorance. I know people who will NOT go to their own churches for Easter in lieu of coming to my parish- because Pascha is just that awesome and reverent and joyous and inspiring and God is THERE. They can't go back after experiencing the Feast of Feasts, even if they haven't realized it yet.

Great and Holy Pascha

The Paschal sermon of St John Chrysostom is read aloud in every Orthodox parish on the morning of the Great and Holy Pascha Jesus Christ. According to the tradition of the Church, no one sits during the reading of St John's sermon, but all stand and listen with attentiveness.


If any man be devout and loveth God,
Let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast!
If any man be a wise servant,
Let him rejoicing enter into the joy of his Lord.

If any have laboured long in fasting,
Let him how receive his recompense.
If any have wrought from the first hour,
Let him today receive his just reward.
If any have come at the third hour,
Let him with thankfulness keep the feast.
If any have arrived at the sixth hour,
Let him have no misgivings;
Because he shall in nowise be deprived therefore.
If any have delayed until the ninth hour,
Let him draw near, fearing nothing.
And if any have tarried even until the eleventh hour,
Let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness.

For the Lord, who is jealous of his honour,
Will accept the last even as the first.
He giveth rest unto him who cometh at the eleventh hour,
Even as unto him who hath wrought from the first hour.
And He showeth mercy upon the last,
And careth for the first;
And to the one He giveth,
And upon the other He bestoweth gifts.
And He both accepteth the deeds,
And welcometh the intention,
And honoureth the acts and praises the offering.

Wherefore, enter ye all into the joy of your Lord;
Receive your reward,
Both the first, and likewise the second.
You rich and poor together, hold high festival!
You sober and you heedless, honour the day!
Rejoice today, both you who have fasted
And you who have disregarded the fast.
The table is full-laden; feast ye all sumptuously.
The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.
Enjoy ye all the feast of faith:
Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness.

Let no one bewail his poverty,
For the universal Kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one weep for his iniquities,
For pardon has shown forth from the grave.
Let no one fear death,
For the Saviour's death has set us free.
He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it.

By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive.
He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh.
And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry:
Hell, said he, was embittered
When it encountered Thee in the lower regions.

It was embittered, for it was abolished.
It was embittered, for it was mocked.
It was embittered, for it was slain.
It was embittered, for it was overthrown.
It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains.
It took a body, and met God face to face.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.

O Death, where is thy sting?
O Hell, where is thy victory?

Christ is risen, and thou art overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave.
For Christ, being risen from the dead,
Is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be glory and dominion
Unto ages of ages.

Amen.

Pascha (Easter)

Enjoy ye all the feast of faith; receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness. (Sermon of St John Chrysostom, read at Paschal Matins)

The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is the center of the Christian faith. St Paul says that if Christ is not raised from the dead, then our preaching and faith are in vain (I Cor. 15:14). Indeed, without the resurrection there would be no Christian preaching or faith. The disciples of Christ would have remained the broken and hopeless band which the Gospel of John describes as being in hiding behind locked doors for fear of the Jews. They went nowhere and preached nothing until they met the risen Christ, the doors being shut (John 20: 19). Then they touched the wounds of the nails and the spear; they ate and drank with Him. The resurrection became the basis of everything they said and did (Acts 2-4): ". . . for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have" (Luke 24:39).

The resurrection reveals Jesus of Nazareth as not only the expected Messiah of Israel, but as the King and Lord of a new Jerusalem: a new heaven and a new earth.

Then I asw a new heaven and a new earth. . . the holy city, new Jerusalem. And I heard a great voice from the throne saying "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people. . . He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away (Rev. 21:1-4).

In His death and resurrection, Christ defeats the last enemy, death, and thereby fulfills the mandate of His Father to subject all things under His feet (I Cor. 15:24-26).

Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing (Rev. 5: 12)

THE FEAST OF FEASTS

The Christian faith is celebrated in the liturgy of the Church. True celebration is always a living participation. It is not a mere attendance at services. It is communion in the power of the event being celebrated. It is God's free gift of joy given to spiritual men as a reward for their self-denial. It is the fulfillment of spiritual and physical effort and preparation. The resurrection of Christ, being the center of the Christian faith, is the basis of the Church's liturgical life and the true model for all celebration. This is the chosen and holy day, first of sabbaths, king and lord of days, the feast of feasts, holy day of holy days. On this day we bless Christ forevermore (Irmos 8, Paschal Canon).

PREPARATION

Twelve weeks of preparation precede the "feast of feasts." A long journey which includes five prelenten Sundays, six weeks of Great Lent and finally Holy Week is made. The journey moves from the self-willed exile of the prodigal son to the grace-filled entrance into the new Jerusalem, coming down as a bride beautifully adorned for her husband (Rev. 21:2) Repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation, prayer, fasting, almsgiving, and study are the means by which this long journey is made.

Focusing on the veneration of the Cross at its midpoint, the lenten voyage itself reveals that the joy of the resurrection is achieved only through the Cross. "Through the cross joy has come into all the world," we sing in one paschal hymn. And in the paschal troparion, we repeat again and again that Christ has trampled down death - by death! St Paul writes that the name of Jesus is exalted above every name because He first emptied Himself, taking on the lowly form of a servant and being obedient even to death on the Cross (Phil. 2:5-11). The road to the celebration of the resurrection is the self-emptying crucifixion of Lent. Pascha is the passover from death to life.

Yesterday I was buried with Thee, 0 Christ. Today I arise with Thee in Thy resurrection. Yesterday I was crucified with Thee: Glorify me with Thee, 0 Savior, in Thy kingdom (Ode 3, Paschal Canon).

THE PROCESSION

The divine services of the night of Pascha commence near midnight of Holy Saturday. At the Ninth Ode of the Canon of Nocturn, the priest, already vested in his brightest robes, removes the Holy Shroud from the tomb and carries it to the altar table, where it remains until the leave-taking of Pascha. The faithful stand in darkness. Then, one by one, they light their candles from the candle held by the priest and form a great procession out of the church. Choir, servers, priest and people, led by the bearers of the cross, banners, icons and Gospel book, circle the church. The bells are rung incessantly and the angelic hymn of the resurrection is chanted.

The procession comes to a stop before the principal doors of the church. Before the closed doors the priest and the people sing the troparion of Pascha, "Christ is risen from the dead. . .", many tImes. Even before entenng the church the priest and people exchange the paschal greeting: "Christ is nsen! Indeed He is risen!" This segment of the paschal services is extremely important. It preserves in the expenence of the Church the primitive accounts of the resurrection of Christ as recorded in the Gospels. The angel rolled away the stone from the tomb not to let a biologically revived but physically entrapped Christ walk out, but to reveal that "He is not here; for He has risen, as He said" (Matt. 28:6).

In the paschal canon we sing:

Thou didst arise, 0 Christ, and yet the tomb remained sealed, as at Thy birth the Virgin's womb remained unharmed; and Thou has opened for us the gates of paradise (Ode 6).

Finally, the procession of light and song in the darkness of night, and the thunderous proclamation that, indeed, Christ is risen, fulfill the words of the Evangelist John: "The light shines in darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it" (John 1:5).

The doors are opened and the faithful re-enter. The church is bathed in light and adorned with flowers. It is the heavenly bride and the symbol of the empty tomb:

Bearing life and more fruitful than paradise Brighter than any royal chamber, Thy tomb, 0 Christ, is the fountain or our resurrection (Paschal Hours).

MATINS

Matins commences immediately. The risen Christ is glorified in the singing of the beautiful canon of St John of Damascus. The paschal greeting is repeatedly exchanged. Near the end of Matins the paschal verses are sung. They relate the entire narrative of the Lord's resurrection. They conclude with the words calling us to actualize among each other the forgiveness freely given to all by God:

This is the day of resurrection. Let us be illumined by the feast. Let us embrace each other. Let us call "brothers" even those who hate us, And forgive all by the resurrection. . .

The sermon of St John Chrysostom is then read by the celebrant. The sermon was originally composed as a baptismal instruction. It is retained by the Church in the paschal services because everything about the night of Pascha recalls the Sacrament of Baptism: the language and general terminology of the liturgical texts, the specific hymns, the vestment color, the use of candles and the great procession itself. Now the sermon invites us to a great reaffirmation of our baptism: to union with Christ in the receiving of Holy Communion.

If any man is devout and loves God, let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast. . . the table is fully laden; feast you all sumptuously. . . the calf is fatted, let no one go hungry away. . .

THE DIVINE LITURGY

The sermon announces the imminent beginning of the Divine Liturgy. The altar table is fully laden with the divine food: the Body and Blood of the risen and glorified Christ. No one is to go away hungry. The service books are very specific in saying that only he who partakes of the Body and Blood of Christ eats the true Pascha. The Divine Liturgy, therefore, normally follows immediately after paschal Matins. Foods from which the faithful have been asked to abstain during the lenten journey are blessed and eaten only after the Divine Liturgy.

THE DAY WITHOUT EVENING

Pascha is the inauguration of a new age. It reveals the mystery of the eighth day. It is our taste, in this age, of the new and unending day of the Kingdom of God. Something of this new and unending day is conveyed to us in the length of the paschal services, in the repetition of the paschal order for all the services of Bright Week, and in the special paschal features retained in the services for the forty days until Ascension. Forty days are, as it were, treated as one day. Together they comprise the symbol of the new time in which the Church lives and toward which she ever draws the faithful, from one degree of glory to another.

0 Christ, great and most holy Pascha. 0 Wisdom, Word and Power of God, grant that we may more perfectly partake of Thee in the never-ending day of Thy kingdom (Ninth Ode, Paschal Canon).

The V. Rev. Paul Lazor New York, 1977
oca.org

YouTube - Come Receive the Light - Deute Labete Fws
YouTube - Christ Is Risen!
YouTube - Orthodox Easter
 
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seashale76

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Every year at this time I wish that I'd been born into an Orthodox family. Glorious liturgy. Absolutely glorious.

Well, if you're ever in my neck of the woods (Louisville, KY) drop me a line. You're more than welcome to visit at my parish any time, Pascha or not.
 
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Hey, Loo-a-vul.

Dixie Hwy, here.

Awesome! :thumbsup: I think you're the only other Louisville folk I've seen around CF. I officially live in the East End- but I might as well say the Highlands area cause I spend most of my time there it seems.
 
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