Should Christians support the creation of a Palestinian state in the Holy Land?

SonOfTheWest · Mar 25, 2011

I support the creation of such a state.

Blackwater Babe · Mar 25, 2011

Paxton25 said:
Palestinians aren't Arabs; they're Mediterranean Philistines who have no historic claim to the land. Why not allow Israel to send them back to Greece or Turkey?

Well they WERE on that bit of land before the current state of Israel, and the ones there now where born there. Even if ethnically their origins are from Turkey or Greece, talking about "sending them back" is sort of like saying white Americans should be "sent back" to Britain, and both offensive and impractical for precisely the same reasons.

brightmorningstar · Mar 25, 2011

wannabeadesigirl,

So if Hamas and Israel are committing atrocities why are you biased for Israel?

hello?

I am biased for any Christians caught in the cross fire. This includes the Palestinian Christians who are getting a beating, and I'm upset because the Christian church in America continues to support Israel when it is contributing to the displacement of our brothers and sisters.

If it doesnt support Israel, Israel is likely to get attacked and wiped out, as the surrounding Arab countries have already tried.

brightmorningstar · Mar 25, 2011

Paxton25,

What Israelis and Palestinians do or don't do have nothing to do with God's promises regarding Israel. They will be fulfilled because God said that they would through his prophets.

I agree, but that doesnt cut much ice with people who dont seem to believe it. What most here want to argue is the politics and worldly events.

It makes no difference what Orthodox Jews or Christians think of the OT prophets. New Testament junkies would be wise to re-read Romans 9-11. God has not forgotten about Israel. Replacement Theology is unBiblical. The Day of the Lord is coming whether you like it or not.

Exactly.

laconicstudent · Mar 25, 2011

brightmorningstar said:
If it doesnt support Israel, Israel is likely to get attacked and wiped out, as the surrounding Arab countries have already tried.

Israel has nuclear weapons, and we've spent years pumping billions of dollars of aid into them, military and otherwise. If they get wiped out at this point, they are utter incompetents.

Lets be honest, we all know that Israel is in not the slightest danger at this point, they are clearly the dominant military in the region, thanks to my tax dollars.

Brak · Mar 25, 2011

What Israelis and Palestinians do or don't do have nothing to do with God's promises regarding Israel

Such as?

wannabeadesigirl · Mar 26, 2011

brightmorningstar said:
wannabeadesigirl,
hello?

So supporting a nation based on Judaism, a faith that a. Rejected our messiah, b. continues to reject the messiah and c. considers itself a proselytizing religion is more important than supporting those of your own family and faith?
There is a mentality amongst some in Israel and abroad called Zionism that supports the creation of an Israeli nation. At the surface this seems rather simple, they just want a nation for Jews around the world to call home. If it stopped at that point then fine, but within Zionism is the concept that Judaism is the only true religion, that the temple must be rebuilt, and that the old customs and traditions must be reinstated.
These beliefs are so fundamentally against EVERYTHING we as Christians believe that I, in good faith, cannot support anything that smacks of Zionism. I mean rebuilding the temple?! If Jesus is the final sacrifice then our supporting this action is essentially throwing that sacrifice back in the face of the God who gave it to us!

I agree that God has alot planned for the nation of Israel, and for the Jews. I agree that he has promised them a place, but I don't think that the place is a physical land anymore. I don't deny that God loves the Jews, he does. At the same time we also have to remember that he loves the rest of us too, including the Palestinian and Israeli Christians who are being displaced and killed because of the fighting.

brightmorningstar said:
If it doesnt support Israel, Israel is likely to get attacked and wiped out, as the surrounding Arab countries have already tried.

So we're talking about promises to the Jews. God promised that he would be their God, that he would abide with them, and they would be his people. They were told their multitude would number the grains of sand on the beach (and Christians take this to include the Christian faith) and that they would find refuge in God.

Do you think that your comment agrees with this assertion put forth in the Bible? I mean if God is for them then how are they going to be wiped out? My problem is that the country hasn't LEARNED from past mistakes. God sent Assyria and Babylon to take over Israel because they were mistreating those within their borders. Their actions were unjust and they had stopped following Gods precepts. Modern Israel is still doing that today. Granted Assyria and Babylon got it bad for doing what they did to Israel, but I'm not supporting the demolition of the Israeli nation. I'm supporting the continued existance of a Palestinian nation free from Israeli intervention

brightmorningstar · Mar 28, 2011

laconicstudent,

Israel has nuclear weapons, and we've spent years pumping billions of dollars of aid into them, military and otherwise. If they get wiped out at this point, they are utter incompetents.

Are you advocating them using nuclear weapons if needed? Otherwise I don’t see the relevance of your remark.

brightmorningstar · Mar 28, 2011

wannabeadesigirl,

So supporting a nation based on Judaism, a faith that a. Rejected our messiah, b. continues to reject the messiah and c. considers itself a proselytizing religion is more important than supporting those of your own family and faith?

Yes. Remember Jesus came as a Jew, the nation is one God chose to be His people as an example. Why would you say that when the Palestine ruling parties, Hamas and Fatah are Islamic, a faith that includes the denial of Jesus Christ the risen Son of God, a proselytizing religion which essentially is hostile to people another faith to living within its borders.

There is a mentality amongst some in Israel and abroad called Zionism that supports the creation of an Israeli nation.

Of course, as Christians we also note the promises of God to the land to them.

but within Zionism is the concept that Judaism is the only true religion, that the temple must be rebuilt, and that the old customs and traditions must be reinstated.

Same as Islam, does the mosque on the temple mount in Jerusalem not have the inscription ‘God has no son’ ?
Imagine if now someone said they had a new revelation from god that Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all corrupted versions of the true religion and such a view gained widespread acceptance to a point where the site in Mecca was destroyed and a new temple to the true god was built in its place?

These beliefs are so fundamentally against EVERYTHING we as Christians believe that I,

Christians acknowledge the Biblical testimony that God promised the land to the Jews.

Simonline · Mar 29, 2011

As a Christian Zionist I believe that the land belongs to YHWH and He has given it as an EVERLASTING inheritance to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendents after them but theological considerations aside (because not everyone yet accepts the Judeo-Christian God/faith or Scriptures (but they will)) there are also air-tight legal and political reasons why the land belongs to Israel rather than to the Palestinan Arabs.

Myths and Facts. U.S. and the Arab-Israeli Conflict

Myths & Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict

pipeline_of_hatred

con2

nutshell3

Simonline.

Paxton25 · Apr 1, 2011

wannabeadesigirl said:
So supporting a nation based on Judaism, a faith that a. Rejected our messiah, b. continues to reject the messiah and c. considers itself a proselytizing religion is more important than supporting those of your own family and faith?
There is a mentality amongst some in Israel and abroad called Zionism that supports the creation of an Israeli nation. At the surface this seems rather simple, they just want a nation for Jews around the world to call home. If it stopped at that point then fine, but within Zionism is the concept that Judaism is the only true religion, that the temple must be rebuilt, and that the old customs and traditions must be reinstated.
These beliefs are so fundamentally against EVERYTHING we as Christians believe that I, in good faith, cannot support anything that smacks of Zionism. I mean rebuilding the temple?! If Jesus is the final sacrifice then our supporting this action is essentially throwing that sacrifice back in the face of the God who gave it to us!

I agree that God has alot planned for the nation of Israel, and for the Jews. I agree that he has promised them a place, but I don't think that the place is a physical land anymore. I don't deny that God loves the Jews, he does. At the same time we also have to remember that he loves the rest of us too, including the Palestinian and Israeli Christians who are being displaced and killed because of the fighting.

So we're talking about promises to the Jews. God promised that he would be their God, that he would abide with them, and they would be his people. They were told their multitude would number the grains of sand on the beach (and Christians take this to include the Christian faith) and that they would find refuge in God.

Do you think that your comment agrees with this assertion put forth in the Bible? I mean if God is for them then how are they going to be wiped out? My problem is that the country hasn't LEARNED from past mistakes. God sent Assyria and Babylon to take over Israel because they were mistreating those within their borders. Their actions were unjust and they had stopped following Gods precepts. Modern Israel is still doing that today. Granted Assyria and Babylon got it bad for doing what they did to Israel, but I'm not supporting the demolition of the Israeli nation. I'm supporting the continued existance of a Palestinian nation free from Israeli intervention

Do you really think that anything modern Israelis have done is a surprise to Christ?

You need to re-read Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Your souls may very well depend upon it.

RMDY · Apr 1, 2011

Deny Palestine a state. Let them go to Jordan or something.

Cooch · Apr 4, 2011

wannabeadesigirl said:
So if Hamas and Israel are committing atrocities why are you biased for Israel?

Richard Goldstone - chairman of the UNHRC Committee that produced a report bearing his name that accused both Hamas and Israel of committing atrocities, has since reconsidered his position.

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.

The final report by the U.N. committee of independent experts chaired by former New York judge Mary McGowan Davis that followed up on the recommendations of the Goldstone Report has found that Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza while the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.
Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committees report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.

Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post

Zaac · Apr 4, 2011

The land belongs to the Jews because it was given to them by God. Bad things happen when folks go against what God has ordained for His chosen people and the land HE gave to them.

wannabeadesigirl · Apr 4, 2011

Paxton25 said:
Do you really think that anything modern Israelis have done is a surprise to Christ?

You need to re-read Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Your souls may very well depend upon it.

No I don't. I don't know why the surprise factor came into the disscussion. Please explain to me what you mean by it...

Like I said, if you even read through my post, that God has something planned for Israel. I'm just not sure it has anything to do with PHYSICAL land. I believe there are exceptions to living in the Promised land dependant on treating the land with it's seventh year sabbatical, and honoring parents. You also have to remember that the shekinah glory LEFT the temple because of the injustices performed by the Israelites.

And thanks for insinuating that I'm going to hell because I have a specific opinion based on Biblical concepts. I really appreciate your judgement on my eternal soul based on your extensive knowledge of my personal walk with Christ. *end sarc*

brightmorningstar · Apr 5, 2011

wannabeadesigirl,
'Not sure' it has anything to do with the physical land is ok, but hardly the basis for a position that excludes the possibility. The Bible does describe the land being given to the Jews, so they could live as God's people.

All scripture is God breathed and useful for equipping God's people for good works, Christians should not be defensive about being directed to read the scriptures.

Should Christians support the creation of a Palestinian state in the Holy Land?

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