"Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids."
Proverbs 6:25
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
Romans 6:12
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said,
Thou shalt not covet."
Romans 7:7
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
Matthew 5:28
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision
for the flesh,to fulfil the lusts thereof."
Romans 13:14
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin,
when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
James 1:14-15
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
Galatians 5:19-21
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's"
Exodus 20:17
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world"
1 John 2:16
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do
the things that ye would."
Galatians 5:16-17
If you can touch without lusting, out of marriage, go ahead. But I'd call BS on that. If you're talking about masturbating over your wife or with, then I really don't see a problem with it.
Again...just like the others you go through a long list of scripture that talks about lust and lust of the flesh etc., where not one mention of masturbation is made, and then conclude it by saying this also includes masturbation. These verses...which I accept BTW, are talking about lust...NOT masturbation.
The problem here clearly is in the way you are defining lust...as if sexual thoughts are lust. This is specifically where we disagree.
Lust is spoken of often in scripture and in many places it is not considered evil but rather and indication of a strong desire to posess. When it is spoken of as sinful it is this strong desire to posess that which one is not entitled to. Always the connection of covetousness is included in lust...good or bad. The command dealing with coveting is only forbidding coveting what you are not entitled to, not coveting itself. Jesus spoke clearly that when in your heart you desire to posess what is forbidden...you are already guilty of sin because the heart contains the very essence of sin.
But do normal sexual thoughts and feelings automatically fall into this category of lusting? I say they do not or the unmarried lovers in Song of Solomon could never celebrate their desire for one another. (Even if you maintain that they eventually married, though there is no clear indication of it, they certainly celebrated their sexual desire for each other long before it could have happened) Desire is often spoken of as good is scripture...and only when it becomes unbridled and lustful does it become sin.
The word lust has become more narrow in meaning since the
time of KJV; the RSV generally reserves the terms for passionate
evil desires, usually sexual. As in English, the Greek term is of wide
meaning, with particular meaning dependent on the context. It can
represent any strong desire, including those that are sinful and
those that are not (Lk. 22:15; Phil. 1:23; 1Thess. 2:17) and can be as
broad as materialism (Mk. 4:19; Rev. 18:14) or as specific as sexual
passion or obsession (Mt. 5:28; Rom. 1:24; 1 Thess. 4:5).
Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, pg. 668
Both the Heb. and Gk. indicate strong desire; the bad sense of
evil desire is present only in certain contexts.
ISBE, vol. 1, pg. 797, 798
1
epithumia, what is directed toward anything, desire which
attaches itself to or upon its object. It is used exclusively of sinful
desire, which corresponds to mans depraved nature. The inward
passion of concupicence. 2. orexis, a reaching after, the appetite and
tendency toward the external object. No. 1 is only the mental
desire; No. 2 has conjoined with it the notion of the thing desired.
No. 1 may therefore be used absolutely, as in Rom. 7:7 and 8:9, but
No. 2 never. Hedone, pleasure, gratification, enjoyment, pathos,
suffering, passion (of affection or love). Epithumeo, to fix the desire
upon, to have the affections directed towards anything (of unlawful
desires). Epipotheo, to desire upon, i.e. over and above, to desire
earnestly, long for. (Bullinger, p. 472)
Epithumia denotes strong desire of any kind, the various kinds
being specified by some adjective. It is used of a good desire in Lk.
22:15; Phil. 1:23; 1 Thess. 2:17 only. Everywhere else it has a bad
sense. In Rom. 6:12 the injunction against letting sin reign in our
mortal body to obey the lusts thereof, refers to those evil desires
which are ready to express themselves in bodily activity. They are
equally the lusts of the flesh
a phrase which describes the
emotions of the soul, the natural tendency towards things evil.
Such lusts are necessarily base and immoral, they may be refined in
character, but are evil if inconsistent with the will of God.
(Expository Dictionary of New testament Words, W.E. Vine, part 3, pg.
25)
So we know that lust is usually very bad, and that lustful
looking is sinful looking. But unless we know more than these two
facts, we know nothing useful about what God wants us to avoid in
this regard. Lets look at some actual texts that deal with this subject.
Job makes a covenant with his eyes: why should I gaze upon a
young woman? (Job. 31:1). Obviously this is looking with sexual
desire.
If you see a beautiful woman and desire her
Deut. 21:11. Quite
obviously, this is sexual desire sparked by the womans physical
beauty and it is approved by God and indeed provided for in His
law. So how does this shed light on if a man look upon a woman to
lust after her
(Mt. 5:27, 28). How is this different from lust of the
eyes? Why is one forbidden, and the other accepted? In view of the
prima facie acceptance of polygamy in the OT, what about a married
man who looks upon a beautiful unmarried woman, is sexually
attracted to her, and desires her for a second wife? Since this
occurred thousands of times in the OT, with Gods approval, it is
obvious that this does not constitute lust of the eyes or committing
adultery in ones heart. It should already be apparent that lust of the
eyes is something more than looking with sexual appreciation.
How about your reference to Jesus words?
Do not commit adultery. But I say whoever looks upon a woman to
lust after her has committed adultery against her already in his heart,
(Mt. 5:27ff). Is this the definition of lust of the eyes? Does one
commit this sin when one merely looks at a woman with sexual
desire?
(To be continued...)