Hello everyone. This is my first actual post but I have been surfing around for a while just enjoying the different topics and am (to be honest) a little overwhelmed by what I have read. I have spent that last 10 years trying to excite my friends about the bible and encourage theological discussions just to sharpen each other and noone seems interested, almost like they don't care. Then I find this place... WOW! I plan on "gleaning" as much from you all as you will let me (Ruth 2:2) Hope you don't mind!
My question is this. A friend of mine and I are doing a small study on Matthew. He does not have a deep understanding of scripture so we are just slowly hitting the main ideas. While in chapter 4 the question of who Satan really is came up. I began listing some verses that I knew and Isaiah 14:12-18 (or so) was one of my first. I had been told and/or was under the impression that Lucifer in verse 12, though directly referring to the king of Babylon (v. 4), also applied to Satan. I thought that the verse,
"You said in your heart, 'I will ascend into heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God;"
was just as applicable to Satan as it was to this King. I was taught the whole section (12-18 or so) applied to him. Yet while I was doing my study I noticed that in my bible dictionary this verse wasn't even listed as a reference. Confused, I looked it up in a different dictionary that I have on my computer and then in a commentary. None of them were mentioning Isa. 14. Then I read in the notes in my bible that the name, "Lucifer", was translated as such in the Latin Vulgate and the original phrase was "morning star". I looked up lucifer in a concordance and found that Isa 14:12 is the ONLY location in the bible that it is found (KJV). The phrase "morning star" is only used 3 more times in the NIV (twice in KJV), once in 2 Pet 1:19, and twice in Revelation (2:28, 22:16), none of them referring to Satan.
So can we "confidently" say this passage is referring to satan as well as to the King of Babylon? I am aware of a similar situation in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and in that example it (in my opinion) must be someone other than the King of Tyre.
"you were in Eden, the garden of God... you were annointed as a guardian cherub" etc.
I just wanted to get some feed back and see what anyone else thought. Thanks for your help...
My question is this. A friend of mine and I are doing a small study on Matthew. He does not have a deep understanding of scripture so we are just slowly hitting the main ideas. While in chapter 4 the question of who Satan really is came up. I began listing some verses that I knew and Isaiah 14:12-18 (or so) was one of my first. I had been told and/or was under the impression that Lucifer in verse 12, though directly referring to the king of Babylon (v. 4), also applied to Satan. I thought that the verse,
"You said in your heart, 'I will ascend into heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God;"
was just as applicable to Satan as it was to this King. I was taught the whole section (12-18 or so) applied to him. Yet while I was doing my study I noticed that in my bible dictionary this verse wasn't even listed as a reference. Confused, I looked it up in a different dictionary that I have on my computer and then in a commentary. None of them were mentioning Isa. 14. Then I read in the notes in my bible that the name, "Lucifer", was translated as such in the Latin Vulgate and the original phrase was "morning star". I looked up lucifer in a concordance and found that Isa 14:12 is the ONLY location in the bible that it is found (KJV). The phrase "morning star" is only used 3 more times in the NIV (twice in KJV), once in 2 Pet 1:19, and twice in Revelation (2:28, 22:16), none of them referring to Satan.
So can we "confidently" say this passage is referring to satan as well as to the King of Babylon? I am aware of a similar situation in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and in that example it (in my opinion) must be someone other than the King of Tyre.
"you were in Eden, the garden of God... you were annointed as a guardian cherub" etc.
I just wanted to get some feed back and see what anyone else thought. Thanks for your help...