The Abomination of Desolation {whoso readeth, let him understand}

Kingdom_Come · Mar 19, 2011

If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near; Yet if they bethink themselves in the land whither they are carried captive, and turn and pray unto thee in the land of their captivity, saying, We have sinned, we have done amiss, and have dealt wickedly; If they return to thee with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, whither they have carried them captives, and pray toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, and toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for thy name: Then hear thou from the heavens, even from thy dwelling place, their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive thy people which have sinned against thee. (2 Chron 6:36-39) (excerpt from Solomons prayer)

Now what is the abomination of desolation?

The first place we might start is by seeing if there are any examples given to us in Scripture. It turns out that there are. What does The Lord consider an abomination? There are many things listed as being an abomination in Scripture. However, we are concerned with one in particular.

The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing. (Deu 7:25-26)

Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. (Deu 27:15)

Idolatry, the worship of a false god; this is an abomination to The Lord.

When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. (Deu 12:29-32)

Israel is warned that certain forms of worship or honoring God are unacceptable to Him. It is even considered an abomination to Him. He did not want the children of Israel to commit the offenses of those who worshipped other gods. An example of abominable worship is provided here; the offering of ones child as a sacrifice. He did not want Israel to try and worship Him the way others worshipped their gods.

Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God. (Deu 17:1)

Israel is warned that an imperfect sacrifice (or imperfect worship) is an abomination to The Lord.

When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. (Deu 18:9-13)

It is revealed here in Deuteronomy 18 that The Lord was going to deliver the nations that inhabited the promised land into the hands of the Israelites. His command was for them to utterly destroy these people because of the wickedness, sin and evil and detestable things they constantly did (Deu 7:1-2). The things they did were an abomination to The Lord (such as murdering their children). Abrahams seed would become the sword of The Lord against the wicked ones that dwelt in this land. The Lord would use Israel to punish these people and to cast them out.

And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (Gen 15:13-16)

Here Abraham receives a prophecy about his descendants. He is shown their coming affliction in Egypt, and the eventual judgment of Egypt. The Lord reveals to Abraham the land that his seed will one day inhabit. Verses 19-21 show the people that inhabited the land at that time. We read in Deuteronomy 7 that The Lord will send Israel against the nations that inhabit the land that will become Israel. The iniquity of the Amorites was finally full, and it was time for their judgment. The Lord used Israel to evict them from that land and to destroy them for their iniquity. How much less would The Lord judge Israel itself if they fell prey to the same sins as those who inhabited the land before them?

Now consider the sin of Solomon.

But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. (1 Ki 11:1-4)

When Solomon was old, his heart was turned towards other gods. He built places for those gods to be worshipped.

For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. (1 Ki 11:5-8)

And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile. (2Ki 23:13)

As a result God passed judgment on Solomon.

Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen. (1 Ki 11:11-13)

The judgment was that Israel would be split into two kingdoms, the kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Judah. Later Israel and Judah would commit the same sins.

And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. (sin in kingdom of Israel) (1 Ki 12:26-30)

And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel. (sin in kingdom of Judah) (1 Ki 14:22-24)

Israel and Judah began to sin and to commit all the abominable acts of the nations which The Lord had sent them to destroy and drive out of this land. How much less would God judge them if He judged those nations that preceded them (the Hittites, the Girgashîtes, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites)?

Kingdom_Come · Mar 19, 2011

Ahijah prophesies to the wife of king Jeroboam of Israel that Israel will be uprooted, and He will give Israel up.

“For the LORD shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the LORD to anger. And he shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin, and who made Israel to sin.” (1 Ki 14:15-16)

And so it happened:

“In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.” (2 Ki 17:6)

“For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them [they did not repent and change]; Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.” (2 Ki 17:22-23)

What is the state of the hearts of the people at the time of the end? “And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders[are children being “sacrificed” today?], nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.” (Rev 9:20-21)

Judah was also prophesied about for its sins. King Manasseh set up altars to Baal and set up altars in the house of The Lord. So it was prophesied to him, “And the LORD spake by his servants the prophets, saying, Because Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols: Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle. And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down. And I will forsake the remnant of mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies;” (2 Ki 21:10-14)

Before this Isaiah had prophesied to king Hezekiah:

“And Isaiah said unto Hezekiah, Hear the word of the LORD. Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store unto this day, shall be carried into Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the LORD.” (2 Ki 20:16-17)

This was fulfilled, “And the king of Babylon smote them, and slew them at Riblah in the land of Hamath. So Judah was carried away out of their land.” (2Ki 25:21)

The Lord judged Israel as He had judged those who had inhabited the promised land prior to Israel. Just as God had used Israel to scourge those kingdoms which preceded them, God used the nations surrounding Israel to scourge them. Israel was removed from their land. Judah was also removed, but God showed mercy to Judah and did not allow them to be lost so that all might be fulfilled. The promised Messiah was to come from the line of David. Now if God judged Israel for its sins, wickedness, murders and abominations, and if He judged those nations which preceded Israel for their abominations and the same kinds of wickedness and cast them out of the estate He had given them, then how much less will He judge the nations of this time for their murders, wickedness and sin? The day comes when God will judge all. He will punish the stars of heaven as well as the kings of the earth. “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.” (Isa 24:21)

Now Jesus told the people that the invasion of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple must happen so that all that is written will be fulfilled, “For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:22) The prophesied judgment had to be fulfilled.

“And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life: In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.” [when Titus invaded Jerusalem] (Deu 28:64-68)

Also what was written concerning their dispersion and eventual restoration had to be fulfilled. God is longsuffering. But there does come the time when the iniquity and sin of the wicked is full. At that time, God judges them. Just as the iniquity of the Amorites had to be full, so too does the iniquity and times of the gentiles have to be full, “And they [Jewish people] shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24)

Israel would be revived as the time of the gentiles comes to an end. Eventually The Lord will restore the whole house of Israel and make them strong again. Israel’s dispersion coincides with the dawn of the last days (as spoken of by Joel) and the dawn of the church age, and the reviving of Israel signals the approaching end of the last days and the times of the gentiles and the approach of the Millennial reign (dawn of the Day of The Lord).

“For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.” (Hos 3:4-5)

“Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days [days according to God; see 2 Pet 3:8] will he revive us: in the third day [Millennium] he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.” (Hos 6:1-2)

During the exile and captivity of Judah in Babylon we find the writings of Daniel. Now Daniel, among other prophets, prophesied about many of the things that were to come upon the house of Judah.

They would eventually be allowed to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple (which happened under Cyrus the Great; ultimately they’d rebuild the city, the beginning of the restoration of which was decreed under the Persian king Artaxerxes; Neh 2:6-8; Dan 9:25). Many things would happen. Daniel saw right down to the time of the end (the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom). Among the things Daniel prophesied about was a ruler who would rise from the ashes of Alexander’s Empire and would commit the transgression of desolation. He would take away the daily sacrifice.

Daniel 8:4-7 describe the clash between the he goat with the notable horn and the ram with the two horns. We find out in verse 20 that the two horned ram represents the kingdom of the Medes and the Persians. In verse 21 we find out that the rough goat is the king of Grecia, and the notable horn is the first king. So our starting point for Chapter 8 is the clash between the Persian Empire and the kingdom of Greece. The first king (notable horn), which was the king that invaded the Persian Empire and conquered it, was Alexander the Great.

Daniel also prophesies the disintegration of Alexander’s Empire as it dissolves into four kingdoms which do not go to his posterity. It is revealed that in the latter times of these kingdoms a certain ruler will rise who will take away the daily sacrifice and commit the transgression of desolation. In Daniel 11 we find more information about the rise of Greece, its split and the ruler who will set up the abomination that maketh desolate.

Kingdom_Come · Mar 19, 2011

“And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king [Alexander the Great]. Now that being broken [death of Alexander and breaking of his empire], whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power [four kingdoms that ultimately rose out of Alexander’s empire but did not go to his posterity but instead were divided by his generals (Dan 11:2-4 talks about this as well); the four kingdoms: Macedonia (Greece), Pergamon (modern day Turkey), Egypt and the Seleucid empire (modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon)]. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.” (Dan 8:21-25)

“Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came forth a little horn [out of one of the four kingdoms that rise out of Alexander the Great’s empire comes a particular ruler], which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down [by this particular ruler that arises out of one of these four kingdoms that arise out of the ashes of Alexander the Great’s broken kingdom was the sacrifice made to cease]. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.” (Dan 8:8-12)

“And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.” (Dan 11:21)

“At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.” (Dan 11:29-31)

Now Antiochus IV Epiphanes fulfilled much of what is prophesied about the man of sin. As was prophesied, he rose from the ashes of Alexander the Great’s Empire to rule one of the four kingdoms that were prophesied to come out of it (the Seleucid Empire). As was prophesied, he came against the south (Egypt) but was withstood by the Romans (ships of Chittim). He was embarrassed and upset (grieved). He had indignation against the covenant (agreement) and had the support of many Hellenizing Jews (intelligence with those who forsake the holy covenant). He had indignation against the Jewish religion and their covenant with God. He violated the agreement the Jews had under his father where Grecian customs would not be enforced, and the Jews would be allowed to retain their own laws. Arms (armies or forces) stood with him. He outlawed the true worship of Yahweh by penalty of death. He set up an image of a false god (abomination) and compelled sacrifices be made to this god (worship). He also claimed to be the manifestation of (meaning of the name Epiphanes) that same god. All of these things follow the prophecies we find in Daniel 8 and 11 even to setting up the abomination. But in Daniel 11:35 we are told that the end is not yet.

There are a couple of Scriptures of note. In Daniel 8:17 Daniel is told that the vision concerning the little horn will be fulfilled at the time of the end. In verse 25 Daniel is told that this particular prince will stand up against the Prince of princes.

Now in the gospels, Jesus prophesies, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )” (Mat 24:15).

Jesus gives us a very important clue, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. So Jesus points us to the prophecies of Daniel to find out what this abomination will be (whoso readeth, let him understand). Now if we look back at the prophecies of Daniel and look back at the history of Antiochus IV, we see a very clear example of the man of sin and abomination to come. He will exalt himself above all that is called God as revealed in Daniel 11:36-37 and through Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

“And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.” (Dan 11:36-37)

“Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” (2Th 2:4)

Just as Antiochus IV, he will claim to be the manifestation of God. He will set up the abomination of desolation:

“And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.” (Dan 11:31)

“But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:” (Mar 13:14)

Now Antiochus IV set up an image of his god, the god he claimed to be the manifestation of, in the holy place and compelled worship of this god. Do we see anything like this described in prophecy concerning the time of the end?

“And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast (abomination), which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” (Rev 13:14)

Just like under Antiochus, worship of the image of the beast will be compelled by penalty of death.

“And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.” (Rev 13:15)

So we can see that there is a reason Jesus pointed us to the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. There is also a reason Daniel saw this event happening at the time of the end (Dan 8:17) even though when we read about the abomination that maketh desolate in Daniel 11:31, we are told later in verse 35 that the time of the end is yet for a time appointed. Ultimately Daniel is told that the little horn he saw in Daniel 8:9 will stand up against the Prince of princes (Dan 8:25).

“And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.” (Dan 8:25)

So thus we arrive at one of the layers of understanding with regard to the abomination of desolation. It has happened before, and it will happen again. Daniel saw this even though he did not fully understand what he saw. How do we know that the future man of sin will come at the time of the end? We know this because he is destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:” [same son of perdition to be revealed that Paul spoke of in verses 3 and 4] (2Th 2:8)

“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.” (2Th 2:8 ESV)

We see this also described in Revelation chapter 19 where the beast and the kings of the earth are gathered together at the battle of Armageddon when The Lord returns. The beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire (destroyed with the brightness of His coming). We also see this in Daniel 7:8-11. Later in Daniel 7 we read about the little horn’s affliction of the saints of The Most High during his reign for time, times and the dividing of time. In Revelation 13:5 it is revealed that he will reign for 42 months (3 and a half years; time [1 year], times [2 years] and the dividing of time [half a year]).

Daniel 9:27 reveals that the prince that shall come will confirm the covenant (agreement) with many for 1 week (7 days which represents 7 years). And in the midst of the week he will cause the sacrifice to cease (halfway through the 7 years or 3 and a half years into the covenant week; which leaves 42 months or 3 and a half years to bring chaos [time, times and the dividing of time]). If he causes the sacrifice to cease after 42 months, then what might the original agreement have been that he confirms?

“And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.” (Rev 11:1-2)

The day comes when The Lord will evict the stars of heaven from their estate (the stars shall fall and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken) and evict the wicked upon the earth from their estate, which He gave to them through Adam. And The Lord will create a new heavens and a new earth, and paradise will be restored for the righteous to inhabit.

P.S. This is the last part of a rather long response I started in another thread. For anyone interested, it can be found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7533924-29/#post56959718

I thought it might be better to create a new thread than go any further off topic in the other thread.

Manasseh_ · Mar 19, 2011

Kingdom_Come said:
Now Antiochus IV set up an image of his god, the god he claimed to be the manifestation of, in the holy place and compelled worship of this god. Do we see anything like this described in prophecy concerning the time of the end?

Right, Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Jupiter Olympus (Zeus) in the temple and some historians claim he had a pig sacrificed on the altar as a "sacrifice" to Zeus

He even thought himself to be a type of this false god. That's what his very title means "epiphanes" manifestation of..............in his case a manifestation of Zeus in the flesh, himself..........and he spent large sums on greek temples honoring zeus

all the other great examples you gave as reference show how idol worship and how Israel fell into this cause them to anger God in so many ways and instances and why Paul said these things are written as examples for us to be warned and have understanding of......

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

I'd venture to say that if I had lived during Antiochus' time and had told him his false god zeus can't see, hear or walk, he wouldn't repent for worshiping this abominaton of desolation, then I'd be summarily executed for even suggesting this about his false god.

sad to say , history does repeat itself as John sees in visions, even when these people were spared and not killed by those plagues, they still refused to repent of their abominations and worshiping of idols.

Sure is obvious why the first 2 of God's great commandments state....

There is only one true God who can save (1st commandment) and secondly because of this do not worship idols (2nd commandment)

interpreter · Mar 19, 2011

The abomination of desolation appeared in the Holy Place exactly when Daniel said it would, 1290 years after the taking away of sacrifices by Nebuchadnezzar. (The Dome on the Rock is the abomination of desolation). See Dan. 12:11.

chalkstc · Mar 19, 2011

Interpreter,

The abomination of desolation appeared in the Holy Place exactly when Daniel said it would, 1290 years after the taking away of sacrifices by Nebuchadnezzar. (The Dome on the Rock is the abomination of desolation). See Dan. 12:11.
__________________

Me thinketh you been reading the False Prophet by Ellis Schofield. When the Word says " a time", it means one year. When it says a week, it means seven years. When it says days, it simply means days and you have no Biblical basis to make days = years imo. 1260 / 1290 / 1335....alll days.

In the two places. Numbers 14 and Ezek, neither of those passages says a day = a year, but a day for a year. And neither text is in the prophetic endtime mode.

Frankie

beloved57 · Mar 19, 2011

The abomination of desolation is all the false doctrines now adays going out in the name of Christ.. All that which is Higly esteemed of men !

lk 16:15

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

What are some doctrines in the churches today that is highly esteemed among men ? What about man has a freewill and he wills his salvation, completely dethroning God as the Sole Author of Salvation for His People..

chalkstc · Mar 19, 2011

beloved57 said:
The abomination of desolation is all the false doctrines now adays going out in the name of Christ.. All that which is Higly esteemed of men !

lk 16:15

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

What are some doctrines in the churches today that is highly esteemed among men ? What about man has a freewill and he wills his salvation, completely dethroning God as the Sole Author of Salvation for His People..

Why do you insist on taking an escatalogical term such as THE AOD and plunk it into today and our walk? We are speaking of endtime themes on this forum.

There are other forums here to speak of Soterology rather than Escatology.

Thx,
Frankie

son_flower · Mar 19, 2011

beloved57 said:
The abomination of desolation is all the false doctrines now adays going out in the name of Christ.. All that which is Higly esteemed of men !

lk 16:15

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

What are some doctrines in the churches today that is highly esteemed among men ? What about man has a freewill and he wills his salvation, completely dethroning God as the Sole Author of Salvation for His People..

Or how about sow money to the kingdom of Heaven and expect a 666 fold return on investment.

son_flower · Mar 19, 2011

Kingdom_Come said:
And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king [Alexander the Great]. Now that being broken [death of Alexander and breaking of his empire], whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power [four kingdoms that ultimately rose out of Alexanders empire but did not go to his posterity but instead were divided by his generals (Dan 11:2-4 talks about this as well); the four kingdoms: Macedonia (Greece), Pergamon (modern day Turkey), Egypt and the Seleucid empire (modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon)]. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. (Dan 8:21-25)

Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came forth a little horn [out of one of the four kingdoms that rise out of Alexander the Greats empire comes a particular ruler], which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down [by this particular ruler that arises out of one of these four kingdoms that arise out of the ashes of Alexander the Greats broken kingdom was the sacrifice made to cease]. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. (Dan 8:8-12)

And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. (Dan 11:21)

At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:29-31)

Now Antiochus IV Epiphanes fulfilled much of what is prophesied about the man of sin. As was prophesied, he rose from the ashes of Alexander the Greats Empire to rule one of the four kingdoms that were prophesied to come out of it (the Seleucid Empire). As was prophesied, he came against the south (Egypt) but was withstood by the Romans (ships of Chittim). He was embarrassed and upset (grieved). He had indignation against the covenant (agreement) and had the support of many Hellenizing Jews (intelligence with those who forsake the holy covenant). He had indignation against the Jewish religion and their covenant with God. He violated the agreement the Jews had under his father where Grecian customs would not be enforced, and the Jews would be allowed to retain their own laws. Arms (armies or forces) stood with him. He outlawed the true worship of Yahweh by penalty of death. He set up an image of a false god (abomination) and compelled sacrifices be made to this god (worship). He also claimed to be the manifestation of (meaning of the name Epiphanes) that same god. All of these things follow the prophecies we find in Daniel 8 and 11 even to setting up the abomination. But in Daniel 11:35 we are told that the end is not yet.

There are a couple of Scriptures of note. In Daniel 8:17 Daniel is told that the vision concerning the little horn will be fulfilled at the time of the end. In verse 25 Daniel is told that this particular prince will stand up against the Prince of princes.

Now in the gospels, Jesus prophesies, When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) (Mat 24:15).

Jesus gives us a very important clue, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. So Jesus points us to the prophecies of Daniel to find out what this abomination will be (whoso readeth, let him understand). Now if we look back at the prophecies of Daniel and look back at the history of Antiochus IV, we see a very clear example of the man of sin and abomination to come. He will exalt himself above all that is called God as revealed in Daniel 11:36-37 and through Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. (Dan 11:36-37)

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2Th 2:4)

Just as Antiochus IV, he will claim to be the manifestation of God. He will set up the abomination of desolation:

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: (Mar 13:14)

Now Antiochus IV set up an image of his god, the god he claimed to be the manifestation of, in the holy place and compelled worship of this god. Do we see anything like this described in prophecy concerning the time of the end?

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast (abomination), which had the wound by a sword, and did live. (Rev 13:14)

Just like under Antiochus, worship of the image of the beast will be compelled by penalty of death.

And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Rev 13:15)

So we can see that there is a reason Jesus pointed us to the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. There is also a reason Daniel saw this event happening at the time of the end (Dan 8:17) even though when we read about the abomination that maketh desolate in Daniel 11:31, we are told later in verse 35 that the time of the end is yet for a time appointed. Ultimately Daniel is told that the little horn he saw in Daniel 8:9 will stand up against the Prince of princes (Dan 8:25).

And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. (Dan 8:25)

So thus we arrive at one of the layers of understanding with regard to the abomination of desolation. It has happened before, and it will happen again. Daniel saw this even though he did not fully understand what he saw. How do we know that the future man of sin will come at the time of the end? We know this because he is destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [same son of perdition to be revealed that Paul spoke of in verses 3 and 4] (2Th 2:8)

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2Th 2:8 ESV)

We see this also described in Revelation chapter 19 where the beast and the kings of the earth are gathered together at the battle of Armageddon when The Lord returns. The beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire (destroyed with the brightness of His coming). We also see this in Daniel 7:8-11. Later in Daniel 7 we read about the little horns affliction of the saints of The Most High during his reign for time, times and the dividing of time. In Revelation 13:5 it is revealed that he will reign for 42 months (3 and a half years; time [1 year], times [2 years] and the dividing of time [half a year]).

Daniel 9:27 reveals that the prince that shall come will confirm the covenant (agreement) with many for 1 week (7 days which represents 7 years). And in the midst of the week he will cause the sacrifice to cease (halfway through the 7 years or 3 and a half years into the covenant week; which leaves 42 months or 3 and a half years to bring chaos [time, times and the dividing of time]). If he causes the sacrifice to cease after 42 months, then what might the original agreement have been that he confirms?

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (Rev 11:1-2)

The day comes when The Lord will evict the stars of heaven from their estate (the stars shall fall and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken) and evict the wicked upon the earth from their estate, which He gave to them through Adam. And The Lord will create a new heavens and a new earth, and paradise will be restored for the righteous to inhabit.

P.S. This is the last part of a rather long response I started in another thread. For anyone interested, it can be found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7533924-29/#post56959718

I thought it might be better to create a new thread than go any further off topic in the other thread.

Thank you for this Daniel 8 breakdown I saw you had written this in another thread somewhere and could not find it.

granpa · Mar 20, 2011

the abominable desolation is due to the use of spiritual nuclear weapons (symbolized as lightening)

interpreter · Mar 20, 2011

chalkstc said:
Interpreter,

Me thinketh you been reading the False Prophet by Ellis Schofield. When the Word says " a time", it means one year. When it says a week, it means seven years. When it says days, it simply means days and you have no Biblical basis to make days = years imo. 1260 / 1290 / 1335....alll days.

In the two places. Numbers 14 and Ezek, neither of those passages says a day = a year, but a day for a year. And neither text is in the prophetic endtime mode.

Frankie

In Bible prophecy, one day often equals one year. For example, the 7th head of the beast (i.e, Islam) trampled Jerusalem for 1260 years, not 1260 days.

chalkstc · Mar 20, 2011

interpreter said:
In Bible prophecy, one day often equals one year. For example, the 7th head of the beast (i.e, Islam) trampled Jerusalem for 1260 years, not 1260 days.

And how do you and Ellis define the legth of a "time"? Trick question!

I can say decade or I can say 10 years. I can say one week or I can say seven days. But when I say 1260 days, I would mean 3 1/2 years.

Now is God a God of confusion? Nada! then why do you confuse days to = years?

When the Jews used a prophetic week or shabowa, it was understood as seven years. A semantic thing,,,,yes. But when they said day, it was an evening and morning, just as the Lord spoke in Gen 1.

Dan 8:14

And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

KJV

Dan 8:26

And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

KJV

Gen 1:5

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

KJV

There is a host more....................do a concordance search.....without Ellis's help of course.

Frankie

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