Just took a minute to get a decent reply, the 1 Corinthians 7 reference has a bunch of links that I had to find.
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Physical intimacy before marriage
- Thread starter SullivanZ
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Just took a minute to get a decent reply, the 1 Corinthians 7 reference has a bunch of links that I had to find.
Fair enough. I do think I over-reacted fwiw, but I really think its important to be careful in this area, not awakening love before its time and not being quick to engage in non-sexual intimacy. Its just such a difficult sin to fight against if you're not aiming high.
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S
SpiritualAntiseptic
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Do you think your own sexuality might be affecting your understanding of sexuality in general?
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leothelioness
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I see where you're coming from and I agree. And there's no hard feelings, honestly. I just don't like it when I'm singled out and accused of something. It's hard for me to not come out like a fire-breathing dragon after that.
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IDK, put my sexuality under the microscope? If I did, how would that change scripture? Could yours also be coloring your view of sexuality in general?
My answers are:
I really don't wanna, but I will if you really think it would be enlightening.
I don't think it would change a bit.
At least as much as mine, I guess.
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SpiritualAntiseptic
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I strongly believe that it could affect the way you interpret scripture.
I think my sexuality is pretty well integrated.
I think the way that you have talked about sexuality here shows some type of internal conflict.
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lawtonfogle
My solace my terror, my terror my solace.
Big post incoming...
Somewhat off topic, but gambling is not a sin. Gambling money unwisely is wrong, but nearly anything you do with money is gambling. If you hide your money in a bank, you are gambling your interest rate verses inflation. If you invest it, you are gambling on the stock market. Some gambles are very wise (such as paying for college, which on average means you will earn more money than you spend, but this is not a guarantee).
Anyways, a married man is to keep his eyes only on his wife. An unmarried man, at least in a culture without arranged marriages, has to use his eyes to find someone to be his wife. If anything, this would be a commandment to not look at other girls, only the one you were dating.
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The basic idea behind this verse is that it is best for any individual to dedicate themself to God. But this is not always possible, as most humans have sexual desires that are, to put it bluntly, too overpowering to just ignore. Thus people should get married. The whole 'do not touch a woman' is for those who have the gift of celibacy.
Everything in permissible. The punishment for unmarried people having sex being different from adultery. The combination of 1 Corinthians 7, Exodus 22, and Deuteronomy 22, taken in the original language to show that marriage happened at a younger age and that Paul was very much warning against forcing people to try to remain celibate after sexual desires happened (exception for those with the gift of celibacy), combined again with our current culture that teaches (and legally enforcing) a very different kind of marriage than that created by God and supported by the Bible, leading to a basic paradox in which the blame for sexual immorality falls not only on those who commit it but those who support the entire messed up system (aka, most of society).
To put it really simply, back in Jewish times, people were married really close to puberty (especially females). Thus, to say we have to follow their rules of sex outside of marriage when we completely ignore their rules of marriage is cherry picking and leading to major problems.
Or perhaps we just have very atypical beliefs. I personally see commitment before God to be the deciding factor, not if you have a piece of paper stamped/signed by a judge.
Around here, I really wonder which side is the unpopular one...
Somewhat off topic, but gambling is not a sin. Gambling money unwisely is wrong, but nearly anything you do with money is gambling. If you hide your money in a bank, you are gambling your interest rate verses inflation. If you invest it, you are gambling on the stock market. Some gambles are very wise (such as paying for college, which on average means you will earn more money than you spend, but this is not a guarantee).
He was talking to a bunch of married men. Think of it this way. Adultery was a crime punished by death. Two unmarried (also not betrothed, but that doesn't happen today) having sex was NOT punished by death. Thus, two unmarried people having sex was not adultery. Thus unmarried person lusting after unmarried person is not adultery.
Anyways, a married man is to keep his eyes only on his wife. An unmarried man, at least in a culture without arranged marriages, has to use his eyes to find someone to be his wife. If anything, this would be a commandment to not look at other girls, only the one you were dating.
And if you look more in-depth into that verse, you will find it is even more shocking than this, because Paul was encouraging (for men who could not keep it to themselves) what would today be called child molestation.
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The basic idea behind this verse is that it is best for any individual to dedicate themself to God. But this is not always possible, as most humans have sexual desires that are, to put it bluntly, too overpowering to just ignore. Thus people should get married. The whole 'do not touch a woman' is for those who have the gift of celibacy.
Everything in permissible. The punishment for unmarried people having sex being different from adultery. The combination of 1 Corinthians 7, Exodus 22, and Deuteronomy 22, taken in the original language to show that marriage happened at a younger age and that Paul was very much warning against forcing people to try to remain celibate after sexual desires happened (exception for those with the gift of celibacy), combined again with our current culture that teaches (and legally enforcing) a very different kind of marriage than that created by God and supported by the Bible, leading to a basic paradox in which the blame for sexual immorality falls not only on those who commit it but those who support the entire messed up system (aka, most of society).
To put it really simply, back in Jewish times, people were married really close to puberty (especially females). Thus, to say we have to follow their rules of sex outside of marriage when we completely ignore their rules of marriage is cherry picking and leading to major problems.
Ah yes, I do believe Song of Songs says 3 times to not awaken love before its time. But when exactly is loves time to awake? I say that only the individual can decide that for themself.
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Didn't read all of this, but I will clarify something, as another said. The punishment for two unmarried people was not the same as adultery. It was TO GET MARRIED. Thus, God views pre-marital relationships slightly differently than He does adultery.
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True.
Or you could say, "Why date at all?"
Why not go one better and expect God to plop the perfect spouse (lol no such thing) right onto your lap from heaven. (Better have a net, lest she hit the ground and make a big mess...)
Or when the person DOESN'T fall from the sky, you can take up the "God has called me to be single" torch and see where that leads.
There's a myriad of options available for the devout. A whole myriad of options.
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Blueflamingos
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I don't think cuddling or kissing or hudding is a sin, but I also think that instead of asking "how far can we go physically before marriage" I would rather ask, "how far out of our way can we go to bring glory and honor to the name of Jesus Christ and to respect and honor each other?" I have personally decided that I will not be kissing whoever my future husband is until our wedding day, but would I ever look at another Christian and tell them that kissing their boyfriend or girlfriend is a sin? No, absolutely not. I just think its way to easy for any kind of physical touch to become sexual- not intentionally but because of the strong way some of us (me included) are wired. I also agree with someone's father who said, "anything (physical) enjoyed before marriage will eventually lose its luster, while everything saved for marriage will just get better and better throughout the couple's life." Now, do I have anything to base this agreement on from personal experience? No, I don't, because I am not married. But I have heard countless testimonies from people who not only waited to have sex, but those who waited to even kiss each other and from their perspectives, that person's father's statement is true. I also believe that God will bless those who are obedient to Him- not because He has to and not because we could do anything to earn it or deserve it, but simply because He loves us and does honor obedience. At the same time, I don't think its ok for someone who has more "extreme" boundaries than another person has any right to go and judge the other person and tell them what they're doing is wrong if what they're doing isn't addressed in the Bible- obviously, its not ok to have pre-marital sex (although we still don't judge those people...or, we shouldn't anyway), but it says nothing about kissing or cuddling or hugging. I personally look at everything physical as a gift- a gift to be enjoyed among spouses....especially as a woman, its very important that I gurad myself and my heart and don't just give any old person something so special- even a kiss. I think the man should have to fight for and earn a woman's heart and gain her trust and he does that by respecting, protecting, and honoring her purity. It takes a strong, Christ-built man in order to do such a thing- it takes a daily walk with Him and a ton of self-control and self-sacrifice.....but if, in the end, he wins the woman of his dreams who will love him and sacrifice for him for the rest of her life, I think that kind of thing should be worth it to him. Just my opinion though, and others are entitled to theirs. God bless!
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