My vote 2012...so far

God bless anyone that would put up with what people who run for office put up with.

The US is about as evenly divided as we are widely divided.
Civil war is not out of the question, given the wildly different world views held by the "left" and "right", in America.

I am left to believe that what we see in Wis. is a mild shadow of the things to come, coast to coast post 2012.

bricklayer said:

God bless anyone that would put up with what people who run for office put up with.

The US is about as evenly divided as we are widely divided.
Civil war is not out of the question, given the wildly different world views held by the "left" and "right", in America.

I am left to believe that what we see in Wis. is a mild shadow of the things to come, coast to coast post 2012.

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Oh I don't know about that. I think civil war is a little extreme. For one thing the demographics don't support it.

Elastria said:

Oh I don't know about that. I think civil war is a little extreme. For one thing the demographics don't support it.

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I hope you're correct, but I suspect that such was believed by most before most civil wars.
Such a "war", because of the demographic distribution, would look more like coast to coast riot.

There have been generations of voters that have been cultivated, bred if you will. They now compose a recipient-culture. These people cannot simply blend into a completely different culture, and their culture is quickly running over our ability to sustain them.

I am as young as one can be and still be a baby-boomer.
My grandson's generation will pay the difference between what has been put in and what has been taken out. Every dollar the Fed. Gov. actually collects it transfers to others in the form of retirement and healthcare entitlements. Everything else the Fed. Gov. does is done with borrowed money. My generation is taking all the money and leaving our grandchildren with the debt. Now we must peddle these programs to their victims not their beneficiaries.

If the youth don't revolt from their impending serfdom, I will be disappointed in them. Their serfdom is the slavery of our time.

I voted for Ralph Nader last presidential election. I just couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain or Obama. I'll probably end up voting third party again. I don't see anyone in the Republican or Democratic party that would run that is worth voting for.

blueapplepaste said:

Republicans don't stand a chance in '12. Not unless something unexpected happens or someone steps up. Right now they're so bent on "purity" within their party that they'll nominate someone who plays to the base, but not the rest of America.

Though I really really REALLY hope that Palin runs, just for the chance for more Tina Fey skits on SNL!

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I don't think Palin has the work ethic to seriously run, and certainly doesn't care enough about the country or the issues to go through the harrowing process and the actual spotlight and unscripted questions.

she will keep speculation alive until it doesn't make her any more money, and will decide not to run, and play the role as kingmaker.

Bachmann, on the other hand, might seriously run. And she would make for some hilarious comedy.

The others are kind of milquetoast, or don't have a shot. I kind of hope that some of the crazy folks without a sensible bone in their body (a la Bachmann, Palin, Ron Paul, Herman Cain) really do make a run of it and stick around for a while. If it ends up with Romney, Pawlenty, and Mitch Daniels, it will be boring. We can at least get some comedy and entertainment out of whoever Republican elites select to be the next Bob Dole style sacrificial lamb

ImmortalTechnique said:

it would be hilarious to see Paul Ryan run. Actually being from the state he pretends to serve, he's just not that bright, and he isn't a good enough liar to get elected. He actually says what Republicans intend to do, rather than what they pretend to do

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Paul Ryan is easily one of the more intellegent people in the congress. Apart from ad hominems do you have any information to actually back up your assertions, or do you prefer to make unsubstantiated and untruthful comments?

all the votes I control: mine, and those of two dogs and three cats who I registered, will vote straight GOP ticket.

Ukrainia said:

Paul Ryan is easily one of the more intellegent people in the congress. Apart from ad hominems do you have any information to actually back up your assertions, or do you prefer to make unsubstantiated and untrueful comments?

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99% of posts are ad hominems. Such suffices for argument, to too many.

Ukrainia said:

Paul Ryan is easily one of the more intellegent people in the congress. Apart from ad hominems do you have any information to actually back up your assertions, or do you prefer to make unsubstantiated and untruthful comments?

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umm, I didn't make any ad hominems. But that is neither here nor there. Paul Ryan's intelligence is obviously somewhat subjective. The fact that he really seems to believe the things he says leads me to believe that he isn't really engaged with reality in a meaningful way.

I'm not here to argue over how smart he is- there's no resolution to such a discussion. I'm just saying that the characteristics he has, that lead him to say and propose the things he does, make him unelectable. I simply found it amusing that someone considered him a strong candidate

ImmortalTechnique said:

umm, I didn't make any ad hominems. But that is neither here nor there. Paul Ryan's intelligence is obviously somewhat subjective. The fact that he really seems to believe the things he says leads me to believe that he isn't really engaged with reality in a meaningful way.

I'm not here to argue over how smart he is- there's no resolution to such a discussion. I'm just saying that the characteristics he has, that lead him to say and propose the things he does, make him unelectable. I simply found it amusing that someone considered him a strong candidate

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So saying that he's not just a liar, but a bad liar, isn't an unsubstantiated attempt to tarnish his character?

ImmortalTechnique said:

I don't think Palin has the work ethic to seriously run, and certainly doesn't care enough about the country or the issues to go through the harrowing process and the actual spotlight and unscripted questions.

she will keep speculation alive until it doesn't make her any more money, and will decide not to run, and play the role as kingmaker.

Bachmann, on the other hand, might seriously run. And she would make for some hilarious comedy.

The others are kind of milquetoast, or don't have a shot. I kind of hope that some of the crazy folks without a sensible bone in their body (a la Bachmann, Palin, Ron Paul, Herman Cain) really do make a run of it and stick around for a while. If it ends up with Romney, Pawlenty, and Mitch Daniels, it will be boring. We can at least get some comedy and entertainment out of whoever Republican elites select to be the next Bob Dole style sacrificial lamb

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I can't decide about Palin. Part of me could see her running, she seems to think (or at least portrays her self as thinking) that America loves her and blames the "lamestream" media and biased polls on making her look bad.

But on the other hand, if she gets half the criticism leveled at her that Obama has, she'd have quit the Presidency long ago. She's an intellectual lightweight quitter; she wouldn't stand a chance. Not to mention I think you're right that she won't run, she's too selfish to run and would rather make money.

Though no doubt that Bachman will make for some comedy gold. Her SOTU response was classic!!

Call me crazy, but I'm sticking with Obama for 2012.

JoyJuice said:

I think part of Ryan's problem is on the whole the constitutes of the GOP are becoming less and less reasonable and he would have to move away from what appears to be at least reasoned positions and cater to them for the sake of election.

"They literally think you can just balance it, you know, (by cutting) waste, fraud and abuse, foreign aid and NPR. And it doesn't work like that," - Paul Ryan on some of the more naive tea-partiers.

They have a "for us or against us" mentality, and I don't think he can talk that straight and be nominated.

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Actually I think the Tea Party, and the Republican Party in general, would avidly support Paul Ryan.

1. If he did run, much of his competition would be less fiscally conservative than he is. Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee would - as far as Tea Partiers are concerned - have blemishes on their recored because as governers they were not actually fiscally conservative. Paul Ryan - as far as I know - has consistently made fiscal conseravatism his primary message.

2. Barack Obama won the last election, in part, because of his image. Paul Ryan might not match Obama's image, but it's close. He's young, brilliant, a good speaker and forceful debater. He would largely negate one of Obama's biggest advantages.

3. He's an idea guy and his strength is speaking on the economy. He put out his Roadmap for America, when many Republicans only wanted to say no to the Democrat's plans. What matters now more than ever, as the saying goes, "is the economy, stupid." And that's something Tea Partiers would say in hearty agreement.

That said, Paul Ryan has said he's not running and I doubt he'll change his mind. So hopefully he can do some good as the Chairman of the House Budget Committee.

JoyJuice said:

You may be right. I looked at his voting record, there is nothing reasonable about him.

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So being conservative is now equivelent to being unreasonable? The logic behind this is fool proof and I cannot believe I didn't see it before. You have trumped the conservative movement with insight that seems to transcend all human thought. Surely, with a small sentence, you have destroyed the conservative movement. A word from you is like breath from a dragon - producing a heat so unquelchable that conservative arguments become as inconsequential as mere ashes, and are whisked to outer space never to be seen again.