It's All Over But The Crying in WI

MacNeil, D. · Mar 11, 2011

the Flee Party has learned that elections have consequences.

tulc · Mar 11, 2011

TerranceL said:
It's now a right to drain as much money as possible from private citizens to pay for pensions that we can't afford?

Must have missed that one.

...so to correct that you take rights away from people? True, it's so much easier to take away rights then to have to actually renegotiate the contracts. :sigh:

tulc(suspects he's going to need a lot more coffee to understand this) :sorry:

Notamonkey · Mar 11, 2011

tulc said:
...so to correct that you take rights away from people? True, it's so much easier to take away rights then to have to actually renegotiate the contracts.
tulc(suspects he's going to need a lot more coffee to understand this)

Saying it's a right means nothing. You only have the right to persue those wages. If you fail, that is no ones problem but your own. I know it's hard for one who feels a sense of entitlement, that someone else owes you something, but that's how liberty works-resposability comes with it-yours, not someone else.

tulc · Mar 11, 2011

Ahh! I'm curious, does removing collective bargaining make both sides of the negotiations more equal now? Does it give the management side more power or less? :scratch:

tulc(is confused how using the government to legislate labor negotiations demonstrates how "liberty" works) :sorry:

Corey · Mar 11, 2011

Ukrainia said:
I wouldn't be too sure of that. Sure the public unions and the public school teachers won't forget this, but if Walker's plan works - and I think it will -

It won't.

jobs will be created

Nope. Job creation basically requires aggregate demand for goods and services. Tax cuts and spending cuts do not create it at the needed levels.

the deficit will be gone

Created by Walker...

and this will all happen without the raising of any taxes.

Not really...

If those 3 likely things happen, Walker will have the support of conservatives and moderates and that's more than enough to win the state. It's a long time until the next election

The next election will be next year (most likely).

(and since he was just elected in November, an attempt at a recall cannot happen this year) and people have a "what have you done for me lately" attitude towards life, so he'll be more than fine.

It's definitely a communication issue. The WI Dems and their allies will need to harp on this for the next few months--in addition to the cronyism and no-bid selling off of state assets the ostensibly non-fiscal bill included.

Christos Anesti · Mar 11, 2011

I'm glad is passed. I think it will do more to mobilize the working class to start looking out for their interests. I hope it happens in more states. I hope the protests grow and the elected officials continue to ignore them. Then we might see some actual change come the next elections. We might even get a president that cares about the American workers and the middle class and will help end this "free trade" nonsense. That is what was behind this destruction of the American worker. Trashed wages and benefits in the the private sector and now they want to share the misery with the public sector too. Obama was too much like Bush. He isn't a friend of workers we need a real choice.

MacNeil, D. · Mar 11, 2011

Christos Anesti said:
I'm glad is passed. I think it will do more to mobilize the working class to start looking out for their interests. I hope it happens in more states. I hope the protests grow and the elected officials continue to ignore them. Then we might see some actual change come the next elections. We might even get a president that cares about the American workers and the middle class and will help end this "free trade" nonsense. That is what was behind this destruction of the American worker. Trashed wages and benefits in the the private sector and now they want to share the misery with the public sector too. Obama was too much like Bush. He isn't a friend of workers we need a real choice.

Gus Hall is dead.

Christos Anesti · Mar 11, 2011

Gus Hall is dead.

What does that have to do with anything?

Christos Anesti · Mar 11, 2011

People on both the right and the left have recognize the problem with "free trade". People like Pat Buchanan for example. Even Donald Trump was talking about putting a 25% tariff on imports from China. It's not a far left commie rallying cry or anything. Of course some people consider any call for the middle class and other workers to stand up for their economic interests "communism" . Those same people usually don't get too upset when CEOs and billionaires look out for their interests by asking for tax cuts though.

Umaro · Mar 11, 2011

This might not be over yet, the GOP directly violated the law to pass this thing, and were even called out on it by one of their own.

ThinkProgress » Wisconsin GOP Anti-Union Vote Violates State’s Open Meetings Law

MacNeil, D. · Mar 11, 2011

Christos Anesti said:
What does that have to do with anything?

he's the kind of communist you want.

jgarden · Mar 11, 2011

Notamonkey said:
Peace and Love in Wisconsin - HUMAN EVENTS

The losers, public unions, are going with their death threats and hissy fits after the Republicans figured out they didn't need any Democrats to end union grubbing off tax payers. Now those poor union slave will be dropping like flies in the streets from abject poverty. Even one Democrat Congressmen compared these union peeps with slaves, which is a slap in the face to slaves.

Sorry to disappoint you, but this is just to opening volley in the Wisconsin Wars. These are just a few of the challenges the Republicans will face before/during the 2012 Election.

1. Governor Walker faces 300 000 angry public servants and a whole series of legal challenges that willl steadily be making their way through the courts.

2. 8 Republican senators who have served more than 1 year are subject to recall. Governor Walker and the rest of the GOP legislatures will be subject to recall in January 2012.

3. Faced with just a 43% approval rating, Governor will face both external abd internal pressures. The chances of the Wisconsin Republicans retaining their majorrity in the legislature is looking bleak, while those Republican politicians whose careers are in jeporady due to recall, will be pressuring the Governor to make compromises to save their seats.

4. Governor Walker faces the ire of 50 000+ public school teachers whose union he arbitrarily refuses to recognize as their legal representative to negotiate collecting bargains. Walker will have to explain to the courts why the unions that supported him in the last election are exempt, while those who didn't support him are punished.

5. Wisconsin's teachers will also have the full support of the nation's 3 million+ public schools in addition to organized labor in the private sector.

6. Wisconsin's Governor has provided the Obama Administration with the ideal issue to reinvigorate the "foot soldiers" and mobilize millions of additional teachers, public sector workers and members of organized lavor.

bricklayer · Mar 11, 2011

It is extremely important that we not give an inch to these tactics,
because what we see in Wis. now is what will be happening coast to coast, after the 2012 elections.

I do not see this going well. The recipeint-culture is not going to all of a sudden join those of us who generate the wealth they suckle.

Public Workers Unions have become money laundering operations for the Democrat Party. It's a protection racket, and the authorities are in on it.

Umaro · Mar 11, 2011

bricklayer said:
It is extremely important that we not give an inch to these tactics,
because what we see in Wis. now is what will be happening coast to coast, after the 2012 elections.

I do not see this going well. The recipeint-culture is not going to all of a sudden join those of us who generate the wealth they suckle.

Public Workers Unions have become money laundering operations for the Democrat Party. It's a protection racket, and the authorities are in on it.

How is the filibuster the GOP was doing any different than this? How are corporate lobbyists funneling cash to the GOP any different? Why do you think teachers aren't generating wealth too? They're paid less than the US average even.

Corey · Mar 11, 2011

bricklayer said:
I do not see this going well. The recipeint-culture is not going to all of a sudden join those of us who generate the wealth they suckle.

Saying something that makes sense would be great.

Are you referring to public employees are the "recipeint-culture (sic)?"

If so, you conveniently forget they are taxpayers as well.

Public Workers Unions have become money laundering operations for the Democrat Party. It's a protection racket, and the authorities are in on it.

So it's okay for corporations to donate to politicians, but not unions? I see. Oh wait...that's right, unions are corporations too. And corporations are people if you believe Scalia et al. Hmm...sounds like there's a federal civil rights violation case here too.

bricklayer · Mar 11, 2011

We in Ohio are very excited to see the right things being done in Wis.
We are looking forward to joining them in the same pursuits.

It is very important that we not reward behaviors like we see in Wis.

My men and I are making arrangements for a place to stay, in Columnus,
if we decide to join others in defense of Gov Kasich's plan.

We, as a nation, are certainly at a "fork in the road".
I haven't been this hopeful since 1994.

Chajara · Mar 11, 2011

Ukrainia said:
Chajara, Scott Walker obviously has a different idea about what he thinks will improve Wisconsin than you do. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Just as I vehemently disagree with Obama's policies, I am not going to base weather or not I think he's an upstanding person because of it. Walker promised during the campaign for govenor that he would not raise taxes, and that he would cut into the deficit. Their is only one way to do that - by cutting government spending. That's what he's doing now. If you're a public employee, it might be frusterating, but don't buy into the conspiracy theories. I think a symptom of the nation's political culture is that people so often equate politicians whose policies they dislike with immoral people, even when they have no evidence for it. And that's just not a healthy thing.

Explain why there was a provision in the bill to sell off state-owned power plants with no bids and no oversight. How does no-bid contracts or adding a middleman in our energy supply for that matter help save the state money? Can you think of a reason why there would be such a provision that doesn't involve a campaign-contributor (Such as the Koch Brothers) buying those plants at firesale prices and then selling the energy back to the state at a profit? I sure as hell can't.

Here's another one: Plain Talk: Guess why Walker wants to freeze self-supporting State Life Fund Basically he's freezing a self-sustaining government program that actually runs a surplus and helps people with insurance premiums. The insurance industry has been slobbering over this for a while because it cuts into their profits. Guess who also contributed to Walker's campaign? Again, why oh why would this be on the table for freezing other than a political favor to campaign donors. Is there a single Walker supporter who has an answer to this?

I don't think he's a bad guy because he's on the other side from me politically. I think he's a bad guy because he appears to be the typical corporatist politician who'll happily pitch in to funnel even more money from the lower classes to the upper ones.

TerranceL · Mar 11, 2011

Drekkan85 said:
Except the unions had already conceded to all the fiscal demands. The true irony is that the budget bill that was severed from the Collective Bargaining bill would have passed unanimously.

Rather, it's a right for labour to organize to protect their interests against monumentally powerful employers.

And those fiscal changes would last as long as a republican was in office. A democrat gets in and they'd go back to the way things were.

TerranceL · Mar 11, 2011

tulc said:
...so to correct that you take rights away from people? True, it's so much easier to take away rights then to have to actually renegotiate the contracts.
tulc(suspects he's going to need a lot more coffee to understand this)

Nobody has taken any rights away from anybody, every teacher can still negotiate their contracts

ImmortalTechnique · Mar 11, 2011

Walker's assault on the taxpayers and children of Wisconsin hasn't gone unnoticed. He forced obedience from the Republican caucus that opposed his bill, and his arrogance, dismissal of the majority of Wisconsinites, lack of respect for the people and values of Wisconsin, and radical views are sinking the Republican party here for the forseeable future

It's All Over But The Crying in WI

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