Obama administration won't defend law banning recognition of gay marriage

Ajax 777 said:

No, I haven't missed that, Svt...

This is just the catalyst. I know Obama has a far more sinister agenda
than homosexuality. I have been saying I think this is an indicator
that we now need to start looking up and prepare for tough times ahead.
I do not think it even to be the will of GOD to plan any sort of civil
uprising at this point. Personally, I think God's judgment is about to occur and has already begun, but hey...
Feel free to disagree.

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agreed

I don't think the president is out to ruin the country, I do think he is working for health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.

The country over extended itself in greed, the people wanted it, and the bankers gave it to them.
Now we are stuck in a domino effect.

SUNSTONE said:

Read it again in Amplified version.

20If then you have died with Christ to material ways of looking at things and have escaped from the world's crude and elemental notions and teachings of externalism, why do you live as if you still belong to the world? [Why do you submit to rules and regulations?--such as]
21Do not handle [this], Do not taste [that], Do not even touch [them],
22Referring to things all of which perish with being used. To do this is to follow human precepts and doctrines.(A)
23Such [practices] have indeed the outward appearance [that popularly passes] for wisdom, in promoting self-imposed rigor of devotion and delight in self-humiliation and severity of discipline of the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh (the lower nature). [Instead, they do not honor God but serve only to indulge the flesh.]

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The meaning remains the same, NIV or Amplified or NASB or KJV...

So explain to me your point.

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What part of it is still confusing you? Man made rules "are of NO VALUE in checking the indulgence of the flesh."

You insist that laws will help people stop indulging the flesh. But this verse clearly says otherwise.

Zugzwang said:

maybe it's just my imagination, but it SOUNDS like they just legalized gay marriage across the country in one fell swoop.

or am i reading that wrong?

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You are reading it wrong. It only means that the POTUS and his administration will not longer actively devote its resources to defending the constitutionality of DOMA, a law that is, in the opinion of this administration, unconstitutional. Until SCOTUS rules on the constitutionality of DOMA, we still lack clear direction as to whether the provisions of DOMA can be enforced. However, in the meantime, individual states still, through their governors and attorneys general, have the authority to enforce its provisions and even to bring actions in court to defend their right to enforce its provisions. All that has happened is that the President has decided that he is no longer interested in using the legal resources of the executive branch of the federal government to enforce this law. If the POTUS believes that a law is unconstitutional, it would arguably violate his oath of office to attempt to enforce it, and this seems to be what the President is doing here.

Ajax 777 said:

I think you're overlooking the precedent this sets.

How many other of our established laws is he going
to no longer enforce, similarly considering them "constitutional?"

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It is the job of the Executive branch of our government to enforce the laws of this country. The president is head of this branch.

It is NOT his job to send lawyers over to the Judicial branch of government and fight for the constitutionality of laws! The President is under no obligation to do this. The question of constitutionality is one that is rightfully addressed by the courts, and the process shouldn't be interfered with by the president anyway!

At least, that is how I make sense of things based on my HS Government class I took close to 30 years ago. I don't know why we tolerate "Christians" making this out to be something more than it is! (I got an email today claiming Obama has forsaken his responsibility to defend the laws of our nation, and blah blah blah. Seriously, how many Christians do they think failed High School government, and actually fall for this??)

Ajax 777 said:

I agree, but shouldn't we already be doing this?

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I was just trying to encourage others to keep on going. When we were born again we were taken out of the world and placed into a new kingdom. Now we have new values, and we serve the King of this new kingdom. He does things differently. The two worlds fight against each other, and this man made law is just another evidence that we're closer to the end. The real battle is in the heart...which kingdom are you going to serve?
So ya, keep on Going in the things of God. Serve His Kingdom in the face of this world. Maybe a homosexual will be in a place to receive the Love of the Father through you and desire to live in His Kingdom. Then that transformed person may go to the homosexual community with his testimony of this Powerful Loving God. Laws don't change people, God does.

Zugzwang said:

maybe it's just my imagination, but it SOUNDS like they just legalized gay marriage across the country in one fell swoop.

or am i reading that wrong?

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Nope. You aint wrong at all, Zug. You hit the nail right on the head.

I think homosexuality will be thought as something than can't be helped, but now will be accepted and embraced even more....considering the fact that those in charge of this nation are pretty much in favor of legalizing gay marriage.

Tamara224 said:

The meaning remains the same, NIV or Amplified or NASB or KJV...




What part of it is still confusing you? Man made rules "are of NO VALUE in checking the indulgence of the flesh."

You insist that laws will help people stop indulging the flesh. But this verse clearly says otherwise.

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20If then you have died with Christ to material ways of looking at things and have escaped from the world's crude and elemental notions and teachings of externalism, why do you live as if you still belong to the world? [Why do you submit to rules and regulations?--such as]
21Do not handle [this], Do not taste [that], Do not even touch [them],
22Referring to things all of which perish with being used. To do this is to follow human precepts and doctrines.(A)
23Such [practices] have indeed the outward appearance [that popularly passes] for wisdom, in promoting self-imposed rigor of devotion and delight in self-humiliation and severity of discipline of the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh (the lower nature). [Instead, they do not honor God but serve only to indulge the flesh.]

That does not say to not make rules or laws, it asks why do you submit to whatever it is he's talking about.
I think it's talking about a specific custom of that time, I'm not sure what.
But it seems to be some kind of food and discipline.

It is against the law to murder, drink and drive, and do illegal drugs, why do you submit to them?

Ajax 777 said:

I think you're overlooking the precedent this sets.

How many other of our established laws is he going
to no longer enforce, similarly considering them "constitutional?"

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I don't think that this is setting a new precedent. The executive branch (whether we are talking POTUS, state governor, AG, or local police and prosecutors) always has a fair amount of discretion as to which laws are enforced, especially where there exist legitimate questions of constitutionality.

Child of JC said:

I know what the word says concerning homosexuality. I would never teach that God is for it, when He's clearly not. But like all sin, isn't it the Holy Spirit's job to convince those who are in sin that what they're doing is wrong? Christians look to Jesus for Wisdom, and obey Him because we love Him. We're only in danger if God's people stop listening to Him. That can manifest in homosexual practices, and a thousand other ways. God does not hate homosexuality more than He hates all other sin. Law or no law, we can rise up in this land. We can show the Love of our Lord and lead sinners right into His Loving Arms. At that point, we can trust Him to do what He wants.

Right now, it looks like the Church is against the Homosexual community, and we represent Him. So, they can make a good case that God is against them, and who is going to run to a God that is angry at you?

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1. Who is to say that it is sin? Who is to judge? Didn't He say "Judge not lest ye be judged"?
2. Just because other people say something (even if they are very close to you, i.e. family, friends, your church) does it mean you can't make a logical decision for yourself?

Becareful not to follow what people say. Read the Bible for what it says.
People often pick and choose verses but dont read around them. Taking the Bible out of context is dangerous.

Howard Cneal said:

What do you guys think of the Westboro Baptist Church?

They are actively against homosexuality and make no bones about it.

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Alot of people just ignore them because they seem mentally unfit for preaching.
It gives a strong excuse to hate the LGBT community and/or their actions behind closed doors.

What people don't get tough, is the fact of what they say implies entirely different meaning to other people that listen. This is incredibly dangerous.

When you say hate the sin love the sinner. In a manner like, "I love my son but I will never be happy that hes gay". That will lead to destroy the relationship between two people.

In many cases it leads to those like in the movie "Prayer's for Bobby".

Just be careful in what you say. It means alot to people. Telling them that who they are is a sin is devistating. It isn't fixable. They will become suicidal if they feel they can't fix something that they are told can be fixed.

Warren Clark said:

Alot of people just ignore them because they seem mentally unfit for preaching.
It gives a strong excuse to hate the LGBT community and/or their actions behind closed doors.

What people don't get tough, is the fact of what they say implies entirely different meaning to other people that listen. This is incredibly dangerous.

When you say hate the sin love the sinner. In a manner like, "I love my son but I will never be happy that hes gay". That will lead to destroy the relationship between two people.

In many cases it leads to those like in the movie "Prayer's for Bobby".

Just be careful in what you say. It means alot to people. Telling them that who they are is a sin is devistating. It isn't fixable. They will become suicidal if they feel they can't fix something that they are told can be fixed.

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I agree with a lot of what you say, but you should be mindful that humanists are not allowed to debate/teach in this forum. Just a gentle reminder.

My apologies, I didn't check to see where this was posted. <3

Howard Cneal said:

What do you guys think of the Westboro Baptist Church?

They are actively against homosexuality and make no bones about it.

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they have no knowledge of the one true God as HE is a God of love yet they teach hate.