Icons, candles, incense and images. Creating an atomosphere? for what?

Thekla said:

Did Jesus Christ refuse to worship at the Temple, with incense, etc. ? Can you point to the verses where teaches that the way He (Jesus Christ) worships is wrong ?
Can

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where are you talking about in the bible

Thekla said:

I think its best to read the entire book of Revelation.

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where did i say it wasn't or are you refering to the point i made about the beast maybe you should read how daniel interpreted the kings visions in Daniel then go back and read revelation

Icons, candles, incense and images. Creating an atomosphere? for what?

Originally Posted by Thekla I think its best to read the entire book of Revelation.

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Incense.....Last used in Revelation 18:3

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(incense)
occurs 129 times in 121 verses in the KJV

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G2368 matches the Greek θυμίαμα (thymiama), which occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV
AV — incense 4, odour 2

NKJV) Revelation 18:13 "and cinnamon and incense/qumiamata <2368>, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.

daniel82 said:

where are you talking about in the bible

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Jesus Christ worshiped as a Jew - with sacrifices, incense, candles. Was Jesus Christ engaging in false worship during His time on earth ?
When did Jesus Christ teach that He was engaging in false worship ? Can you please give me the Gospel references ?

narnia59 said:

Has it occurred to you that it was not the incense in Isaiah that was the abomination but rather the lack of genuineness of the prayers that accompanied it?

If not, and if as you imply the use of incense in and of itself if truly an abomination to God, then he contradicts himself throughout scripture -- since he commands the Israelites to use it, along with his clear acceptance of it in heaven.

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and i don't know when the very scripture says bring no more vain sacrifices ; Inscense is an abomination unto me;

Thekla said:

Jesus Christ worshiped as a Jew - with sacrifices, incense, candles. Was Jesus Christ engaging in false worship during His time on earth ?
When did Jesus Christ teach that He was engaging in false worship ? Can you please give me the Gospel references ?

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Where is the Book Chapter and Verses

daniel82 said:

Where is the Book Chapter and Verses

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He came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the sabbath day. (Luke 4:16)

daniel82 said:

WOW
all i have to say is read Isiah 1:13 and Matt 15:9
and didn't God say not to add or subtract from his commandments isn't to worship him in spirit and in truth a commandment because im sure he wasn't asking if we wanted to or not so nowhere does he command or even say its ok to use instruments so here we go again with another tradition of man can't believe so many people are willing to take a chance with their soul
Havent you read what he did in the old testament then he was nice enough to come down and die on the cross for us and save us from our sins and people still decide to do what they wanna do Lord have Mercy

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He sure did, but the Reformers already did that when they took out bunches of books in the OT that were there when Christ was walking the earth and read by Him in the Temple and also what the Apostles used. So much for that. Look, there it is again...the tradition of men bugle call. Let's just be blunt here. The traditions of men talked about in the Bible are those Christians sects that broke from the RCC and created their own traditions to doing things.

God told us how He wanted our churches to be through Exodus. Christ did not change this command that God made to Moses of how to fix up the temple. So, therefore we are to continue worshiping this same way with the exception which is the main point of worship - the Eucharist. He made the ultimate sacrifice for all of us, thus we worship Him and become in union with Him through the centerpiece of the Liturgy - Eucharist.

Jack544 said:

It looks nice and peaceful in there. There should be more churches with nice quiet areas for study and deep thought.

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The church isn't a library. I'll agree with you that the Church is a peaceful sanctuary. Especially with beautiful icons of the Saints that came before us and are great examples of living lives in Christ. And the candles shining, reminding us of the Light of Christ.

daniel82 said:

well i see someone told you your salvation you read it you didn't hear it from the Bible the Word of God Because you have no idea what revelation is or the bible because you would know Inscense and all those things were done as sacrifice not worship Now since Jesus was the last sacrifice are you saying he wasn't worthy
revelation was a vision that John recieved of Jesus about what is to come sorry to be so blunt but to see laughter in ignorance of the Word remember the dreams daniel interpreted there wasn't abunch of beast running around with horns

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This is soooo off and posted in such ignorance, all I can do is laugh.

daniel82 said:

Where is the Book Chapter and Verses

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Jesus Christ worshiped at the Temple, where they used incense in the worship. So you are claiming that Jesus Christ worshiped with the "abomination" of incense ...

daniel82 said:

Deuteronomy 5:6-9 So i guess God did to huh
inscence and candles and junk don't make worship what you have in your heart does

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Well, this is quite offensive. But judging by your other posts, you do not have really a good idea what you are speaking about.

First off, it's not junk. Things of God are NOT JUNK. Bordering on offending God, if you ask me.

Secondly, we are not gnostics. You really shouldn't follow false teachings from a heretical church was ages ago.

You say we are to have Christ in our hearts. We are also supposed to worship Him with all of ourselves because body, mind, spirit/soul are all in one (the way God made us). You say the heart, but you erase all the use of the senses, you have nothing but the mind. The mind in knowning God is not knowing God. As Elder Gabriel said, those who only know God through the mind will be fooled by the Anti-Christ.

daniel82 said:

and i don't know when the very scripture says bring no more vain sacrifices ; Inscense is an abomination unto me;

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Look, I can put stuff in big red too.


Exodus 25: ", 2 "Speak to the people of Israel, that they take for me an offering; from every man whose heart makes him willing you shall receive the offering for me. 3 And this is the offering which you shall receive from them: gold, silver, and bronze, 4 blue and purple and scarlet stuff and fine twined linen, goats' hair, 5 tanned rams' skins, goatskins, acacia wood, 6 oil for the lamps, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense,

Exodus 25: 29 And you shall make its plates and dishes for incense, and its flagons and bowls with which to pour libations; of pure gold you shall make them

Exodus 30: 1 "You shall make an altar to burn incense upon; of acacia wood shall you make it.

Exodus 30:7 And Aaron shall burn fragrant incense on it; every morning when he dresses the lamps he shall burn it,

Exodus 30:8 and when Aaron sets up the lamps in the evening, he shall burn it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations.

Exodus 30:35 and make an incense blended as by the perfumer, seasoned with salt, pure and holy;

Exodus 30:37 And the incense which you shall make according to its composition, you shall not make for yourselves; it shall be for you holy to the LORD.

Exodus 31:11 and the anointing oil and the fragrant incense for the holy place. According to all that I have commanded you they shall do."

Revelation 8 3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God&#8217;s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. 4 The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God&#8217;s people, went up before God from the angel&#8217;s hand.


Your setting God up to be changeable -- going from "holy" incense to incense being an "abomination" without any regard for the context.

Bottom line -- if incense is being used in heaven it is not an abomination to God!!!!!

daniel82 said:

was it for worship or sacrifice
and thats why he took it out because it was done in vain just like now

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The thing that was taken out, as you put it, was the animal sacrifices. He became the ultimate sacrifice once and all for us. He said nothing about getting rid of how the Altar was set up with lampstands, incense, and the like. If incense wasn't supposed to be used, it wouldn't be used in Heaven as it is.

daniel82 said:

was it for worship or sacrifice
and thats why he took it out because it was done in vain just like now

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Why do you say it is done in vain?

Sometimes masses are held where there is no incense, no candles, no piano player, no pews, no statues, no roof, not even a proper vessel to hold the Blessed Sacrament, but Our Lord is there all the same. So it is the House of the King, though it be a muddy riverbed. We do not need these fine things, but that we have them is a blessing and a mercy.

tadoflamb said:

He came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the sabbath day. (Luke 4:16)

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according to his custom or the jews he went to stand up and read they said nothing about burning sacrifices or insence or anything but he did read out of the scriptures something most churches don't do today
you know i think everyone needs to read Hebrews chapter 9-11 if you havent if you have read it again even if God permitted inscence burning and all that other stuff after the book of Isaiah then it went away when Christ Died begining the new covenant remember when he said you can't put new wine in old bottles you can't bring old covenant ordinances into the new covenant its that simple

"COME now, thou poor child of man, turn awhile from thy business, hide thyself for a little time from restless thoughts, cast away thy troublesome cares, put aside thy wearisome distractions. Give thyself a little leisure to converse with God, and take thy rest awhile in Him. Enter into the secret chamber of thy heart: leave everything without but God and what may help thee to seek after Him, and when thou hast shut the door, then do thou seek Him."
- Saint Anselm of Canterbury

If it helps you seek after God, go for it. If not, don't. Simple as that. If it's icons and rosary beads or contemporary worship music, who cares?

For all the Protestants here, it's lame to bash the sacred traditions of the RCC and EOC based on random proof-texting, and to label it as idolatry...I belong to neither Church and don't agree with everything they teach, but that's just not cool. Seriously...not cool.

Walter Kovacs said:

"COME now, thou poor child of man, turn awhile from thy business, hide thyself for a little time from restless thoughts, cast away thy troublesome cares, put aside thy wearisome distractions. Give thyself a little leisure to converse with God, and take thy rest awhile in Him. Enter into the secret chamber of thy heart: leave everything without but God and what may help thee to seek after Him, and when thou hast shut the door, then do thou seek Him."
- Saint Anselm of Canterbury

If it helps you seek after God, go for it. If not, don't. Simple as that.

It's also lame to bash the sacred beliefs of the RCC and EOC, and to label it as idolatry...I belong to neither Church and don't agree with everything they teach, but that's just not cool. Seriously...not cool.

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Thank you for this quote. I needed to hear something after this draining thread. I can get a bit too caught up on these forums, and it's good to take a breather.

thank you also, for your kind words. To any that I have offended here, please know I do not mean to, but feel compelled much of the time to correct misinformation just as my Catholic brethren do much of the time.

daniel82 said:

according to his custom or the jews he went to stand up and read they said nothing about burning sacrifices or insence or anything but he did read out of the scriptures something most churches don't do today
you know i think everyone needs to read Hebrews chapter 9-11 if you havent if you have read it again even if God permitted inscence burning and all that other stuff after the book of Isaiah then it went away when Christ Died begining the new covenant remember when he said you can't put new wine in old bottles you can't bring old covenant ordinances into the new covenant its that simple

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Look at these early Christian abominators:

"And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God." Luke 24:53

Incense abominators ! And the apostles went to the temple to worship, too.

And look here:

41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” 49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[f] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

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Luke 2


Jesus Christ was at the Temple - where they worshiped with abomination-incense ... and even went there for the Passover ! And earlier, He was dedicated at the Temple !


And the father of John the Baptist was an ...
incense burning guy !!!!