realtruth101
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Is it your understanding that the Two witnesses of Rev.11 are (figuratively KILLED?)
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Who Is This End Time BEAST that you speak of ?
- Thread starter Manasseh_
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I'm certainly not viewing this in the way you describe, obviously Christ is not going "take dominion over 4 of man's human empires' as you say, He is going to RULE ALL NATIONS, the whole WORLD......... these empires are to show where the final end time beast comes out from , the origins of this end time beast, so that people seeking understanding won't go off in every different direction possible and begin to speculated on who and what the beast is, which by the way is exactly what has happened in our time. With that understanding then we begin to see how it all began, and we have to keep one very important point in mind, Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar directly that it was the God in heaven who was able to reveal secrets, Daniel giving God the glory so that Nebuchadnezzar might begin to understand who Daniel's God is.......................
Right, so we have to look elsewhere in understanding on what Daniel had meant when he told Nebuchadnezzar the next kingdom was INFERIOR to his.......you're only looking at it from one single view, ie, how much territory and military might each empire had gained.......God meant in some other way the next was inferior to Nebuchadnezzar's empire.
And the Greco Macedonian Empire fits to a 'T' in Daniel's dreams and visions concerning the prophecy............and being the 3rd world ruling empire.
Daniel sees a leopard , but this leopard was strange looking , having 4 heads.........................now why ? the first 2 beast only had the usual one head
well, a simple study of historical accounts shows that Alexander the Great died shortly after coming to full power.............so what happens? his four Generals Lysimachus, Cassander, Seleucus, and Ptolemy divided his empire equally between themselves each taking a 1/4 (4 heads one beast) fits like a glove...............this empire defeated the Medo Persian Empire and this is what happened about 1 year later when Alexander died. Why did God make use of a leopard as symbolic of this empire ? Leopards are very fast cats, much faster than lions and definitely faster than bears and these are the very same military tactics that Alexander's military used.......we have the same example of this in modern history when hitler's military used the very same tactics , attack hard and fast, this army "takes flight" very fast........they called it blitzkrieg.................lightning war................heyyyyyyyyyyy !!! , remember the 4 WINGS on the leopard.......4 heads, 4 wings.........4 generals
Kingdoms and Empires are synonymous with each other, you may have a small kingdom or a large kingdom, but a king ,regardless , can call his kingdom an empire. History shows that the empires , their rulers still allowed smaller EMPIRES / KINGDOMS to keep their king, but he would be under the SUPREME authority of the conquering KING, the more they conquered the more they grew as a KINGDOM / EMPIRE.........then finally a WORLD RULING EMPIRE.
Have you heard mentioned the BRITISH EMPIRE before ?
Whether they are "secret societies" or make themselves well known, they can be considered no more as world ruling empires, only "religious" sects, babylon, medo persia , greco macedonian, roman empires are no more..............but one............one from those 2 legs, then coming as feet and toes mixed with clay will rise again called the BEAST and this is the one Christ will destroy at his coming in power and great glory.
The most awe inspiring, most fascinating thing about these prophecies is the fact that secular history and all their many books and writings about these 4 world ruling empires simply agree with God who foretold these empires to come to power lonnnnnnnnnngggggg before they did after Nebuchadnezzar's empire. The authority of bible and it's prophecies stand firm as TRUTH.
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The largest and busiest sea ports are the port of Shanghi , the port of Rotterdam, followed by kobe japan ........etc............new york is considered tiny compared to the total cargo tonage (merchandise) that comes in and out, not to mention Los Angeles Harbor port is bigger than New York in the USA as far as total merchandise , in and out.
Now besides all this the end time babylon is symbolized as a woman in Revelation, a harlot..........a harlot that in the far past was responsible for many martyrdoms of saints and will be again in the future. She also rides the end time beast.
There are only 2 women depicted in Revelation...........one being true to God , but the other being true only to herself, one who boasts about herself, a harlot...............an apostate church..............
So how will New York (a round peg) fit into these characteristics of Babylon (square hole) the way Revelation shows her ?
World economics don't center around the United States in this age.
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My apologies for not being able to respond to some posts sooner...........but there are just some employers that demand you show up on time , then on top of that they expect results !...........sometimes its difficult to figure out the motives of some people.
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I've already studied who Ephraim and Manasseh are and who Israel was.........been there done that.
and the beast of Revelation is NOT Ephraim nor is it any other tribe of Israel.................
This is the whole point for this thread, to dispel all these speculations and this guesswork which runs rampant today.
Ephraim cannot be the beast because.............
This end time beast has it's origins and stems from the 4 beasts of Nebuchadnezzar's dream and Daniel's dreams and visions.
in particular it comes out of the last of the four beasts (World Ruling Empires)
The Roman Empire
Israel was so many times conquered by these empires, taken captive many times and finally 10 of those tribes (House of Israel) were lost to history, disappearing among the nations they were dispersed to over time.........
Israel has never been a world ruling empire, Israel has never been any part whatsoever of these world ruling empires
God has promised to redeem Israel fully to it's full nation status, all ten tribes back together again, Christ will destroy this end time beast, so if Ephraim were the beast then Christ would be destroying one of the very tribes that are prophesied to be redeemed by God..............that goes for the Tribe of Dan or any other part of Israel that anyone wants to sit around speculating on, guesswork and speculation are not God's word nor prophecy and they have no part in God's word.
Your premise (guesswork) won't fit, either scripture or history.
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SeraphimsCherub
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If you Type into Google Babylon New York through which highway 27 directly runs, which is directly "situated at the entry of the sea", and then read Ezekiel chapter 27 :Ezekiel 27:2-4 (KJV) Eze 2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus; 3 And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty. 4 Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
Note also what Ezekiel says about Tyrus in the very next chapter:
Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Ezekiel 28:4-5 (KJV) Eze 4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
Ezekiel 28:12-19 (KJV) Eze 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Note also that chapter 2, & 7 of Daniel are the two main chapters of Nebuchadnazzer & Babylon, and the 4 Beasts, and then 2 + 7 = 9, and in chapter 9:27 is thus:Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Needless to say...i find this beyond very interesting!
Note also what Ezekiel says about Tyrus in the very next chapter:
Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Ezekiel 28:4-5 (KJV) Eze 4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
Ezekiel 28:12-19 (KJV) Eze 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Note also that chapter 2, & 7 of Daniel are the two main chapters of Nebuchadnazzer & Babylon, and the 4 Beasts, and then 2 + 7 = 9, and in chapter 9:27 is thus:Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Needless to say...i find this beyond very interesting!
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The beast is Satanic kingdoms. The 8th head that "was, is not, and yet is" is Hitler, the antichrist. His Third Reich (or Third Reign of Rome) is the third six of the 666 trilogy (with the Rome of John's being the original head #6). The 7th head of the beast is Islamic conquerors, who trampled Jerusalem for 1260 years as prophesied.
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It is interesting, but some believe it to be a fulfilled prophecy already:
Ezekiel's Tyre Prophecy Defended
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SeraphimsCherub
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Yes while that has been fulfilled of old! We all know to well that history as a strange tendency of repeating it's self! But Revelation 18 matches Ezekiel 17 perfectly, and Ezekiel 26-28 perfectly which matches the United States of today perfectly being the biggest "Merchandiser" /"tafficer" on the face of the planet!!Ezekiel 17:2-5 (KJV) Eze 2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel; 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar: 4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants. 5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
Ezekiel 27:2-4 (KJV) Eze 2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus; 3 And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty. 4Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
Isaiah 23:8 (KJV) Who hath taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning city, whose merchants are princes, whose traffickers are the honourable of the earth?
Revelation 18:3 (KJV) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Revelation 18:8 (KJV) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Revelation 18:9-11 (KJV) Rev 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Revelation 18:15 (KJV) The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Revelation 18:17-19 (KJV) Rev 17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Notice that who ever "The great city is" The whole city is made "desolate in one hour"!!! That means something horriffic
beyond anything that we can possible imagine is going to take place!! And remember it has to be a "city" that fit's all of the characteristics! And New York has to be the Number One contender!! Just take alook at the map!! Is their any other city on this planet that is named "Babylon" so & so right there situated on the sea just outside of the greatest,wealthest,most populated per sqaure mile in the world "New York City!! Come on people!! It's as clear as day!! How many clues does GOD have to give people until we finally are convinced!! Isaiah speaks of the very same thing:
Isaiah 47:7-11 (KJV) Isa 7 And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it. 8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children: 9 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. 10 For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. 11Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.
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I don't disagree with the "NYC as Babylon" characterization, SC. Not sure that extends to the whole USA though. If scripture is to be believed, God doesn't punish unnecessarily. There is still a core in the USA which obey God's commandments ... much as the "woman-in-travail" is nourished and nurtured in the wilderness.
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realtruth101
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Yes. Also understand there are many "two" witnesses.
.[/quote.......There's only one problem with this method of interpretation, what is the method for determining whether the bible is speaking plainly or symbolically. When its at the readers discretion then anything and everything can mean what ever you want......thats why there's so many different interpretions
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A beast is both the charateristic of the kingdom that it symbollically represents,and the man that is the "head" or has the power, and authority over it! Such as Babylon(The beast kingdom),and Nebuchadnazzer(the beast of man who rules over it), Greece(the beast kingdom) Alexander The Great(the beast man who ruled over it)! So the same with the first Rome, and the NWO-Rome(last beast kingdom) of the anti-Christ(the beast man of lawlessness,the son of perdition,Revelation 17:11 (KJV) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Scripture uses the word beast interchangablely between the Kingdom/nation & the man ruling it!
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If the beast were a person then.......
Rev 13
verse 1........he (the beast) went swimming then John sees him coming out of the sea when he's done ?
a human being with 7 heads ,10 horns with crowns and blasphemies written on his heads, a very odd looking person to say the least
to add to his already odd appearance, he looks like a leopard, his feet look like a bear's and his mouth looks like a lion.....with looks like these don't you think it would be a redundant effort to try and deceive all who worship him............I'd think he would really stick out like a sore thumb with his appearance ?
now besides all this one of his heads receives a deadly head wound, why the mention of that, doesn't seem too serious , he has six spare heads left. (less mouths to feed) ?
I'm still at the first part trying to figure out why he went for a swim ?
Now to top it all off a whole lot of people start to worship him and one form of their worship is giving him glory as to how strong he is in war, they say who is like him, who is able to war with him.......I'd venture to say if was just one man that a small platoon could whip one guy fairly fast...........?
The whole point ? we see right away how absurd this is , even having to ask these questions if it were a person ......and how difficult it would be to find a starting point to explain all these symbols and or characteristics about him which really leads to only one conclusion.................
it couldn't possibly be just a single person that John is seeing in visions here...........but if so, please explain what all these things mentioned about him mean................
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Douggg
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Hi Manasseh, who is this?
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
It is Jesus, who is a person, not a empire or kingdom.
However, I would not say that you are completely wrong, because although the beast is the "Antichrist beast", the beast also represents a kingdom.
I can explain all of the things about the beast in Revelation 13. His 7 heads are 7 sequential kings. The first six are accounted for at the time of John. The seventh king is end times and is the Antichrist man. The Antichrist man will be of Roman descent, specifically of the bloodline of the Julio-Claudians. The other 6 were Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero (#6 and the last of the Julio-Claudians)
The Antichrist man is not an assyrian. The assyrian factor comes from the disembodied beast spirit, now in the bottomless pit, of someone who lived and died in ancient times associated with the original babylon... and that beast spirit will eventually incarnate the Antichrist man.
In Revelation 13, timed with 42 months to go, there are no crowns on the heads because the seventh king, the Antichrist man has been mortally wounded, and he will be the last of the seven kings. The Antichrist man miraculously recovers from the mortal wound and at that time is incarnated by the beast spirit ascending form the bottomless pit. The recovered Antichrist man by being incarnated by the beast spirit from the bottomless pit will become the eighth king - the Antichrist beast.
Revelation 13 is with 42 months to go. The beast as an empire is the 4th empire, the Roman Empire, the EU which the Antichrist man will emerge from. With 42 months to go, the EU will have gotten control of the territories of the former Babylonian empire, the Medo-Persian empire, and the Greek empire. That's why the beast body is made up of those different elements.
The ten kings of Daniel 7, coming out of the Roman Empire, the 4th empire, will give their allegiance to the Antichrist beast (who as the Antichrist man came up among them) for the final 42 months, thus the ten horns have crowns in Revelation 13.
Even though the EU is the territory of the former Roman Empire, it does not govern that way. The EU governs as many languages, one voice - that is their slogan, and their parliament building is blatantly fashioned after the tower of Babel. There are pictures on the internet. I am sure that you have seen them.
That the fourth kingdom swallows up the entire world, it is not as the Roman Empire, but as ancient Babylon was the original one world government, the EU many languages, one voice, is the prototype. The EU will retain its identity, but the world will for a while be under the Antichrist beast's power, for 42 months. The Antichrist beast will have the personality of the beast spirit coming out of the bottomless pit. My guess is that of Nimrod.
Basically, it boils down to this:
The Antichrist man is the Roman + the beast spirit coming out of the bottomless pit is the Assyrian to incarnate him = the Antichrist beast, who has power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations for the last 42 months.
Doug L.
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