God's free will

Hammster said:

Then what do you mean by things that God is not present in?

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Things against His will. Unless you think God is involved with sin somehow.

What if God is not the victim of circumstances and actually brings all things to come to pass?

bling said:

With every opportunity will God always “chose” to do the absolute best thing that can be done?

To make the perfect choice would God have to know the future?

Does God make mistakes?

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Since the fall of man GOD made mankind,and all creation subject to vanity from mankinds "perceptions" of the things! According to the natural laws of cause,and effect through the reality of sin! Which seems to be a life that always ends in death,without any True purpose ,and Reason Behind our existance!! This being the true reality of things outside of the Realm of Christ Where Everything,and All of GOD'S people throughout the entire His-Story of His world Has Been Perfectly Ordained,Predestined,Planned,Called,Chosen,Elected,Providence,Soveriengnty Where God Is Causing All things to work together for All of His people's Good who are in and of His Body Christ!! For this is the reality outside of Christ which GOD is Absolutely still Soveriegn Over,but from mans perspective in seems as this:Genesis 3:17-19 (KJV) Ge 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecclesiastes 1:2 (KJV) Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
Ecclesiastes 1:4-8 (KJV) Ecc 4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
Ecclesiastes 1:14-15 (KJV) Ecc 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
Ecclesiastes 2:11 (KJV) Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 2:15-17 (KJV) Ecc 15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.
16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool.
17Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Romans 8:19-23 (KJV) Ro 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This is just some of the revelation! I'll post the Glorious Reality of The Eternal Purpose,The Only Purpose, Which GOD The Father Purposed In GOD The Son Before the Foundation of the world,and Actuates,and brings it too pass,and seals it done By GOD The Holy Spirit! Later on...

God has ordained all of our choices..He wrote the menu and He has already started to prepare what He has chosen for you to select

There is not one thing that happens He has not foreordained

nobdysfool said:

After you....



I would hope not, considering that you're not Him.



And yet, God DOES know those choices, BEFORE we make them, His knowing them does not cause them, or compel them. Because He's God, and we're not.



Haven't what? Drawn logical conclusions from your statements? I most certainly have, even if you don't acknowledge it. Your denial does not negate my observations



Yeah right, that was what you were doing...



You're the Open theist, you tell me....



Opinions vary....



Again, opinions vary....

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Hammster said:

In the fact that He allows it to happen, yes.

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How is God involved with sin by allowing it to occur? God's non-involvement with sin somehow means He is involved with sin? Doesn't follow.

rnmomof7 said:

God has ordained all of our choices..He wrote the menu and He has already started to prepare what He has chosen for you to select

There is not one thing that happens He has not foreordained

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Amen sister i have no problem with that at all...HallelujahPlus GOD says this His Very Self in Isaiah:Isaiah 45:5-7 (KJV) Isa 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: (((I the LORD do all these things.)))
Romans 13:1 (KJV) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Jpark said:

He can change His future choices anytime.

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Interesting topic. The truth is, yes God knows the future and yes the future is absolutely predetermined in God's mind. But listen carefully, God does not need to change anything or any part of His eternal decree and will. Because the choices He make always sum up to perfection.

Ya know, thinking about these issues really boggle our mind doesn't it? Let alone contemplating the eternality of God, or the Triniy. How great is our God that we can't even begin to conceive of His greatness. Praise Him for all that He is!

God, knows all things, including the future and our final destinations. God knows what we will decide and the choices we are going to make, BUT He doesn't predestinate that fact. God could hardwire every little thing in our life so that nothing we do is outside of his will, but He doesn't do that, we still have a will.

elopez said:

How is God involved with sin by allowing it to occur? God's non-involvement with sin somehow means He is involved with sin? Doesn't follow.

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God is glorified in everything ..even sin..

elopez said:

I believe for something to be ordained God's interaction must abide. So in the things that God is not present in, the occurrences were simply going to happen anyway. Thus inaction is only confirmation for the occurrence to not be willed or ordained by God.

In essence, allowing something to happen does not necessarily equate to willing or wanting that thing to happen. That is not, "by definition."

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If you are God it does ... Did the most horrid crime, the biggest sin , the crucification just happen ?


Are you a theist?

elopez said:

No, as I do not believe that God's sovereignty is limited to actions. That could only be an expression.

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So God is basically placed man in the position of being at the mercy of the creation?

Do you pray? Why bother if you do.. you seem to have a rather helpless god

rnmomof7 said:

God is glorified in everything ..even sin..

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How God is glorified in sin? Can you elaborate? so when we sin God rejoices?

rnmomof7 said:

If you are God it does ... Did the most horrid crime, the biggest sin , the crucification just happen ?


Are you a theist?

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What this has to do with his statement? So God enjoys and rejoices when men sin?

Philothei said:

So God cannot be also above time because he is in our time...? How is God limited by our time?

He does not have to.. As He is above it..Hard to understand and if we did then we would be God

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Please show me the scripture that teaches this..

God is not now present with Adam and eve and Abraham and also present in my bedroom right now , and coming on a cloud to judge too

God, is the author of creation and He has ordained all that was and all that will be.. His plan will be completed..

He marks His days of creation in our time ..He sent His Son when OUR time was right.. and all of this was planned before the foundation of the world .



He can see all of His plan in its entirety, knowing all things , but that is not an ongoing plan.. that he works on as he goes .. it was completed before the creation

God created time for us and all of His plan is within that time..

God will not violate His nature ... and change His mind about the events he has ordained..

Hammster said:

Was it sinful to crucify Christ?

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Yes! Who crucified Christ?