New apologetics website in defense of Medjugojre

Will Check it out.

How do you think this news will play into the work of the commission:

Note on Appointment of Apostolic Delegate to Kosovo

Rising_Suns said:

Dear JoabAnias,
The stated objective of the new Commission is principally of a technical matter; to disseminate and publicize the details of the 1991 Yugoslavian Bishops Conference.

For a Medjugorje supporter, the above note is good news, since it was the 1991 Yugoslavian Bishops Conference that was notably in favor of the apparitions.

The fact that they now have a delegate to help serve the needs of the pilgrims in the area fits squarely with what the 1991 Bishops Conference desired.

Blessings,

Davide

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Davide how do you find they were in favor of the Apparition?

They found:

[as] The Declaration states:

"During the regular session of the Bishops' Conference of Yugoslavia, held in Zadar from April 9-11, 1991, the following was accepted:

DECLARATION

From the very beginning, the Bishops have been following the events of Medjugorje through the local Bishop, the Bishops' Commission and the Commission of the Bishops' Conference of Yugoslavia for Medjugorje.

On the base of studies made so far, it cannot be affirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations. Yet the gathering of the faithful from various parts of the world to Medjugorje, inspired by reasons of faith or other motives, require the pastoral attention and care, first of all, of the local Bishop and then of the other bishops with him, so that in Medjugorje and all connected with it, a healthy devotion towards the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the teachings of the Church may be promoted. The Bishops will also provide special liturgical and pastoral directives corresponding to this aim. At the same time, they will continue to study all the events of Medjugorje through the commissions.

Zadar, 10 April 1991
The Bishops of Yugoslavia"


I went there in 1996 and have always wanted to believe but unfortunately the disobedience to the local ordinary has kept me squarely on the fence.

There has never been a statement from the Church that anything supernatural is going on there.

And repeatedly and officially just to the contrary. Believe me, I have looked and hoped there was something positive but there just isn't.

Medjugorje, Bosnia
•April 10, 1991 - Proclamation of the Bishops of Yugoslavia
•Msgr. Ratko Peric's Open letter to the Secretary General of "Famille Chretienne"
•May 26, 1998 - Letter by Archbishop T. Bertone to Mgr. Gilbert Aubry, Bishop of Saint-Denis de la Reunion
•January 7, 2000 - Msgr. H. Brincard, Bishop of Puy-en-Velay, Association of Marian organizations; From the official bulletin of the French Episcopal Conference [SNOP], No. 1,064 [printed in Documentation Catholique of 7 January 2000].
•JULY 3, 2001 - Zenit News Agency Article: Medjugorje: 20 Years Later, the Questions Linger - Church Has Not Ruled on Reported Apparitions
•February 17, 2004 - MEDUGORJE: SECRETS, MESSAGES, VOCATIONS, PRAYERS, CONFESSIONS, COMMISSIONS
Msgr. Ratko Peric Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, BiH
From a talk given at Maynooth, Co. Dublin
•June 15, 2006 - HOMILY OF BISHOP RATKO PERIC
SOLEMNITY OF THE MOST HOLY BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST
MEDJUGORJE, 15 - VI - 2006
•August 31, 2008 - THE CANONICAL STATUS OF REV. FATHER TOMISLAV VLASIC, OFMMsgr. Ratko Peric, Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, BiH
http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/statements/index.html

Rising_Suns said:

Check out the website. It addresses this issue in depth.

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K. Will do when I get more time.

After 15 years of following this I don't expect to find anything new though.

Interesting site.
That Rising Suns is behind it makes it credible as far as I am concerned.

As a resident lurker and tongue-biter, I'm going to do something highly unlikely for me (I've been on vacation, so I'm still a bit out of it) and state my opinion.

The website seems to be incredibly well-written, however discrepancies do appear. In one place, I found a quote which was referenced in a link. In the link, only half the quote was found on the referencing page, while the other half, which was the half to support your claim, was not. If there's another place to read the bishop's official declaration in its entirety, I would very much like to, in case I'm making a fool of myself by not seeing something that was actually there.

Furthermore, in the letter to Bishop Gilbert Aubry, you gave quotes in supporting your claim, which were not entirely from the actual letter, but the letter with the second paragraph reworded. In that, it does support your claim, but the original wording shows it as less substantial.

Finally, a portion of your references point to other pro-Medjugorje websites. While that is not bad, it does show bias towards your cause, instead of impartiality towards it.

Okay, that wraps up all I had to say for now. It's really well written, I did like it. I've only made it through the timeline and position sections so far, however, and my eyes are starting to tell me I'm tired. But I figured I'd point these out to you, to help strengthen your claim. I found everything contradictory in about a half hour online, and I don't really know much of anything about Medjugorje. But keep on with the good work, I'll keep on reading!

P.S. If anything didn't make sense, let me know. I tend to only write when I'm tired, which doesn't usually make for the clearest of posts. I'll be happy to clarify anything I said later.

Međugorje or Medjugorje is a town located in western Bosnia and Herzegovina, in the Herzegovina region around 25 km southwest of Mostar and close to the border of Croatia. Since 1981, it has become a popular site of religious pilgrimage due to reports of apparitions of the Virgin Mary to six local Catholics.

The name Međugorje literally means "an area between mountains". At an altitude of 200 metres above sea level it has a mild Mediterranean climate. The town consists of an ethnically-homogeneous Croat population of over 4000. The Roman Catholic parish (local administrative and religious area) consists of five neighbouring villages, Međugorje, Bijakovići, Vionica, Miletina and Šurmanci.

In March 2010, the Holy See announced that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was forming an investigative commission, composed of bishops, theologians, and other experts, under the leadership of Cardinal Camillo Ruini, the Pope's former Vicar General for the Diocese of Rome.



Medjugorje - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rising_Suns said:

+JMJ+

Hello all,
I haven't posted here in a number of years. But I just wanted to drop by and let you all know of a new website I just launched. My objective in creating this was to provide a scholarly and objective analysis of the Church's true position on Medjugorje, and also to address [the many] common misconceptions of the apparitions. Hope you may find it useful.

http://www.medjugorje-apologia.com


Blessings,

Davide

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Hey Davide!
So happy see you drop in. I think of you often here in OBOB. You were one of those that treated me kindly after mt ebtry into the RCC. I've never forgotten. Will check out your link.

God bless you always & keep you close to Him.

Michie

Good to see you Davide

Suup Davide.

balesom said:

.....

The website seems to be incredibly well-written, however discrepancies do appear. In one place, I found a quote which was referenced in a link. In the link, only half the quote was found on the referencing page, while the other half, which was the half to support your claim, was not. If there's another place to read the bishop's official declaration in its entirety, I would very much like to, in case I'm making a fool of myself by not seeing something that was actually there.


......

P.S. If anything didn't make sense, let me know. I tend to only write when I'm tired, which doesn't usually make for the clearest of posts. I'll be happy to clarify anything I said later.

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I am impressed with your scrutiny.
I am surprised then that you weren't more specific about which link and which quote you are referring to.

Thanks Davide!!... and as always, it is a wonderful blessing to see you.

SolomonVII said:

I am impressed with your scrutiny.
I am surprised then that you weren't more specific about which link and which quote you are referring to.

Click to expand...

I had to reread some things to know what I was talking about last night, I really must have been out of it.

The quote I speak of is under the heading Position of the Church, subheading 1991 Zadar Declaration from the Yugoslavian Episcopal Conference, bullet point 3.

"I came not only in my own name but in the name of all the Yugoslav bishops, including Msgr. Zanic. Other bishops will come..." [...] "the commission recognizes these good fruits."

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The link referrring to this quote is René Laurentin - The Position of Medjugorje in the Church, and everything up to the ellipses is found in the article. However, I was unable to find "the commission recognizes these good fruits."

balesom said:

The link referrring to this quote is René Laurentin - The Position of Medjugorje in the Church, and everything up to the ellipses is found in the article. However, I was unable to find "the commission recognizes these good fruits."

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Without checking exactly what you're referring to, could the "recognition of good fruits" mentioned perhaps be in regard to this part of the 1991 commisions finding:

"Yet the gathering of the faithful from various parts of the world to Medjugorje, inspired by reasons of faith or other motives, require the pastoral attention and care, first of all, of the local Bishop and then of the other bishops with him, so that in Medjugorje and all connected with it, a healthy devotion towards the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the teachings of the Church may be promoted."
#4

Similar subsequent statements have been made. As well as relegating Bishop Peric's statements to personal opinion.

Rising_Suns said:

To all,
Thank you all for your kind words. Your charity makes me feel guilty I have not posted here in so long. But it is good to see so many familiar faces.

Balesom,
I want to thank you for your thoughtful post. The footnote that you call into question is not in error (although the link next to the footnote is pointing to the wrong page. Thanks for catching that!). The quotation is directly from the book cited, on page 3. In the book, there is a further explanation given;

"In his homily, he acknolwedged the good fruits of prayer and conversion at Medjugorje: 'The Commission recognizes these good fruits'."
​

To JoabAnias,
The position of the 1991 Episcopal Conference is summarized by what its President, Cardinal Kuharic, has stated;

"The Church is not in a hurry. We, the bishops, after three years of examination by the Commission, have declared Medjugorje a place of prayer and a Marian sanctuary. This means that we are not opposed to people coming on pilgrimage to Medjugorje to venerate the Mother of God there, in conformity with the teaching and faith of the universal Church. As to the supernaturality of the apparitions, we have declared: Up to this moment, we cannot affirm it. We leave it for later. The Church is not in a hurry."

​

As evidenced here (and in other public statements by the Cardinal, members of the Commission, and the CDF) the position of the Commission was one which I describe as "cautious optimism" (in other words, leaning more favorably than negatively).

Blessings,

Davide

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Good stuff Davide.

I am sure our Mother in Heaven is watching over us and praying for us.

Rising_Suns said:

To JoabAnias,
The position of the 1991 Episcopal Conference is summarized by what its President, Cardinal Kuharic, has stated;

"The Church is not in a hurry. We, the bishops, after three years of examination by the Commission, have declared Medjugorje a place of prayer and a Marian sanctuary. This means that we are not opposed to people coming on pilgrimage to Medjugorje to venerate the Mother of God there, in conformity with the teaching and faith of the universal Church. As to the supernaturality of the apparitions, we have declared: Up to this moment, we cannot affirm it. We leave it for later. The Church is not in a hurry."

​

As evidenced here (and in other public statements by the Cardinal, members of the Commission, and the CDF) the position of the Commission was one which I describe as "cautious optimism" (in other words, leaning more favorably than negatively).

Blessings,

Davide

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Thank you and yes, I have read that many times.

For me, being the waffler that I have come to be,

the statement of "Constat de non supernaturalitate" vitiates any potential authenticity re: pastoral concern for the region.

Hope makes me optimistic. The totality of the situation, a waffler.


These are our guidelines, so I leave it up to Mother Church to decide for me:

Discernment of Apparitions
1978 Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith document on Apparition Discernment

Its better to have faith in any regards...
So long as its orthodox.

Than not.