Pat Buchanan on Egypt

Douger said:

Ideology vs. the National Interest - HUMAN EVENTS

I wish Obama and leading Republicans would think things through like this guy does.

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Oh, I can guarantee you that Obama, Dems, and Repubs are all thinking about these arguments. But what Pat fails to mention is that the Islamic world hates our hypocritical stance on democracy. The terrorists didn't attack us because they "hate our freedoms" as Bush hilariously argued. They attack us because we prop up dictatorships in the middle east, all the while espousing that we really want democracies to flourish. Almost all the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, where we help keep the House of Saud in power. If our strategy is really one of "We are going to support whatever form of government that is friendly to the united states" then we should just say so and act accordingly. Keeping dictators in power while espousing democratic governments makes the oppressed masses angry...

Douger said:

Ideology vs. the National Interest - HUMAN EVENTS

I wish Obama and leading Republicans would think things through like this guy does.

Click to expand...

You have got to be kidding me.

One can make the same arguments about what would happen to Iraq if one created a power vaccum there, and low and behold that is exactly what happened (how many American hating terrorist groups have been created now in Iraq?) after the Pat Buchanan supported sticking a gun in between their eyes and force something on them without their own self determination.

What ever Buchanan says, do the opposite.

Grizzly said:

Oh, I can guarantee you that Obama, Dems, and Repubs are all thinking about these arguments. But what Pat fails to mention is that the Islamic world hates our hypocritical stance on democracy. The terrorists didn't attack us because they "hate our freedoms" as Bush hilariously argued. They attack us because we prop up dictatorships in the middle east, all the while espousing that we really want democracies to flourish. Almost all the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, where we help keep the House of Saud in power. If our strategy is really one of "We are going to support whatever form of government that is friendly to the united states" then we should just say so and act accordingly. Keeping dictators in power while espousing democratic governments makes the oppressed masses angry...

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They hate us because we are unbelievers:
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden, which that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messanger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the people of the book(bible), until they feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uziar a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth;(inthis) they but imitate what the unbelivers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they deluded away from the truth!' Sura 9:29,30

'Allah's Apostle said, "You(i.ei. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will(betray them) saying, O'Abdullah(i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him."-Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book52, Number 176-Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985

Nothing short of becoming Muslim, being subdued, or death will make them stop.

"...we make no distinction between one and another among them and to Allah do we bow our will(in Islam). If anyone desires a religion other than Islam(submission to Allah) never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost(all spiritual good)." Qur'an3:85

This is some of what fundamentalists Muslims believe.

There is nothing worse then a Muslim telling someone what a Christian believes no diffrent then a Christian telling someone what a Muslim believes.

Somehow, I just don't think accuracy is what they are about.

JoyJuice said:

There is nothing worse then a Muslim telling someone what a Christian believes no diffrent then a Christian telling someone what a Muslim believes.

Somehow, I just don't think accuracy is what they are about.

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"For if the truth of God hath more abounded throuhg my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, as we be slanderously reported, and a some affirm that we say, Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just?"-Romans 3:7


"There is nothing worse than a Muslim telling someone what a Christian believes..."

Maybe a Muslim telling a nonbeliever what he believes?

Google taquyya, taqiyyah.

I wolf doesn't walk up to someone and say, "Hi, I'm a wolf." They say "Hi, I'm a sheep."

Notamonkey said:

"For if the truth of God hath more abounded throuhg my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, as we be slanderously reported, and a some affirm that we say, Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just?"-Romans 3:7


"There is nothing worse than a Muslim telling someone what a Christian believes..."

Maybe a Muslim telling a nonbeliever what he believes?

Google taquyya, taqiyyah.

I wolf doesn't walk up to someone and say, "Hi, I'm a wolf." They say "Hi, I'm a sheep."

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Great, a pericope from Paul where he infers all the world guilty and every man a liar, as you offer your opinion as a opponent to Islam what Muslims believe.

Thanks for making my case.

JoyJuice said:

Great, a pericope from Paul where he infers all the world guilty and every man a liar, as you offer your opinion as a opponent to Islam what Muslims believe.

Thanks for making my case.

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Um, you got Paul infers all the world a liar? Gee, you read scripture not read into it. He said what good is a lie if I am still sinning. And that good doesn't come from the evil if lies. It's real simple.

What is your definition of a fundimentalist? Someone who cherry pick scripture and rejects some or most, or one who believes it all?

Notamonkey said:

Um, you got Paul infers all the world a liar? Gee, you read scripture not read into it. He said what good is a lie if I am still sinning. And that good doesn't come from the evil if lies. It's real simple.

What is your definition of a fundimentalist? Someone who cherry pick scripture and rejects some or most, or one who believes it all?

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nobody believes it all, since it contradicts itself (no matter what holy book we're talking about) fundamentalists are people who convince themselves that they believe it all. they are dangerous because they don't have any consistent beliefs besides the belief that they are right and god is on their side

Notamonkey said:

Um, you got Paul infers all the world a liar? Gee, you read scripture not read into it. He said what good is a lie if I am still sinning. And that good doesn't come from the evil if lies. It's real simple.

What is your definition of a fundimentalist? Someone who cherry pick scripture and rejects some or most, or one who believes it all?

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Read it in context, real slow, and over if neccessary...while fundamentalism requires cherry picking.

Notamonkey said:

They hate us because we are unbelievers:
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden, which that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messanger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the people of the book(bible), until they feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uziar a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth;(inthis) they but imitate what the unbelivers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they deluded away from the truth!' Sura 9:29,30

'Allah's Apostle said, "You(i.ei. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will(betray them) saying, O'Abdullah(i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him."-Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book52, Number 176-Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985

Nothing short of becoming Muslim, being subdued, or death will make them stop.

"...we make no distinction between one and another among them and to Allah do we bow our will(in Islam). If anyone desires a religion other than Islam(submission to Allah) never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost(all spiritual good)." Qur'an3:85

This is some of what fundamentalists Muslims believe.

Click to expand...

"Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed – when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

– Osama bin Laden, 2004

Obama doesn't know what he is doing in Eygpt. Remember when many thought once American elected Obama foreign countries would fawn over him crying out OOOOObama! The guy has no clue.

questftbest said:

Obama doesn't know what he is doing in Eygpt. Remember when many thought once American elected Obama foreign countries would fawn over him crying out OOOOObama! The guy has no clue.

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I'm not aware that he is doing something in Egypt.

MrGoodBytes said:

I'm not aware that he is doing something in Egypt.

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the real issue is that THEY don't know what he's doing in Egypt. They don't know what is going on in Egypt at all. They just know that they really really hate Obama, and whatever he is doing must be wrong.

Its the level of thinking you get on an issue when Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are telling you what to think

ImmortalTechnique said:

the real issue is that THEY don't know what he's doing in Egypt. They don't know what is going on in Egypt at all. They just know that they really really hate Obama, and whatever he is doing must be wrong.

Its the level of thinking you get on an issue when Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are telling you what to think

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I have to say that I enjoy the current situation, if only because it forces the neocon hawks to actually say yes, we think Obama should support this brutal dictator because it serves our interests and for no other reason. It makes for an unusual level of honesty in the political discourse.

Grizzly said:

Oh, I can guarantee you that Obama, Dems, and Repubs are all thinking about these arguments. But what Pat fails to mention is that the Islamic world hates our hypocritical stance on democracy. The terrorists didn't attack us because they "hate our freedoms" as Bush hilariously argued. They attack us because we prop up dictatorships in the middle east, all the while espousing that we really want democracies to flourish. Almost all the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, where we help keep the House of Saud in power. If our strategy is really one of "We are going to support whatever form of government that is friendly to the united states" then we should just say so and act accordingly. Keeping dictators in power while espousing democratic governments makes the oppressed masses angry...

Click to expand...

All of that might be true if, and its a big 'if', the islamic radicals were crusading for the cause of liberty and human rights. They are not. Were those dictatorships to crumble, those same radicals would simply replace them with a dictatorship more to their own particular liking.

lordbt said:

All of that might be true if, and its a big 'if', the islamic radicals were crusading for the cause of liberty and human rights. They are not. Were those dictatorships to crumble, those same radicals would simply replace them with a dictatorship more to their own particular liking.

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They could still hate us for propping up dictators all the while espousing freedom and democracy - even if they don't want a democracy. People hate hypocrisy - and the propping up of dictators.