How Can Christians Love the Jewish People?

yonah_mishael said:

The question is -- am I an operative counter-missionary (read: Jewish apologist) operating on Christian Forums? The answer is no, no matter how much rhetoric you throw out. I came here to share and to offer what I know -- that is, from my experience of knowing the Greek and Hebrew languages and what they have to say from the text. This is certainly a vile attack.

Click to expand...

Your purpose is quite clear. You don't fool me. The fact you have to hide your 'opinions' speaks volumes about your intent here. So does the fact that this forums stated purpose includes:

Messianic Believers incorporate, affirm, and preserve the Jewish identity, Jewish customs, and Jewish style of worship, as they seek to be a light to the Jew first, then to the Nations.

Click to expand...

And our largest established organization states:

Messianic Judaism OverviewOverview

Messianic Judaism is a Biblically-based movement of people who, as committed Jews, believe in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Jewish Messiah of Israel of whom the Jewish Law and Prophets spoke.
To many this seems a glaring contradiction. Christians are Christians, Jews are decidedly not Christian. So goes the understanding that has prevailed through nearly two thousand years of history.

Click to expand...

EVERY theological intent you espouse is from the counter-missionary pov. You even claim to be a SUPPORTER of them.

BUT, you won't support our rules in this forum, nor will you support our statement of purpose. You can't, because you stated you support those who are 'counter' to it.

Hey, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...your not a duck huh? The only vile attack is the one being made by you. As you ignore the purpose of our forum and continue to 'enighten' the less astute posters here about your converted Jewish experience.

If members of this fourm do not want to follow the rules that's another matter, but you applaud their ignorance and infact incourage it. In the name of 'sharing'. If you REALLY cared about the people here you would obey the rules.

And that goes for ALL of you here!

There is a whole section of these forums that can faciltate discussions between faith groups. It's called 'Outreach'. But as usual, MG want to rebel against the Church and allow non-believing Jews to come and share their ...what....Spirit filled knowledge? OY indeed.

Counter-missionary is not counter-freedom or counter-personal choice. You are free to believe whatever you choose, and I would never hinder you in that. You're misrepresenting what a counter-missionary does. It's a defensive stance, not one of attack. Counter-missionaries seek to defense Jewish people against missionaries, not to bang people over the head who sincerely want to seek out Christianity (whether Jewish or otherwise). If a Jew wants to become a Christian, he's free to do that. If a missionary lies to bring Jews in, it's the job of a counter-missionary to not let that person be duped. Honesty is the only way.

Do I believe that Jesus was not the Messiah? Of course. Do I think that "Yeshua" is a name invented to make Jesus more palatable to Jews? Yes. Am I here to fight about such things? No. I'm not interested in making converts. That's not my business. I'm interested in dialogue and opening channels of thought - and getting my own blocks out of the way so that I don't see things only from one perspective, but actually take good arguments in and learn from them.

Almost invariably, the only people who take it upon themselves to fight with me on these forums are those who do not come up with good arguments and are offended when what I have to say doesn't fit their molds. It's OK to disagree. It's OK to see things differently. It's definitely not OK to sling mud and to attempt to make oneself an "enemy".

You're new here. You don't have a clue what my interaction has been or how people have interacted with me. You've come and upset what balance we've maintained for a long time, and as a result I'm going to leave this forum. Not because you've chased me off, but because I choose not to be where people can openly attack others and receive no correction for it.

yonah_mishael said:

You're new here. You don't have a clue what my interaction has been or how people have interacted with me. You've come and upset what balance we've maintained for a long time, and as a result I'm going to leave this forum. Not because you've chased me off, but because I choose not to be where people can openly attack others and receive no correction for it.

Click to expand...

You don't look at forum icons that well do you? I've been here for a whole lot longer than you. And your not the first counter-missionary convert to Judaism I have ran into in this place. Or others..... Your ignorance is growing in bounds. I saw you come, and I will see you go.

I attacked nobody, I stood up for the rules of the forum. Your purpose is/was clear. If you found it an attack to be held to forum rules then you have quite a comprehension problem.

Shimshon said:

You don't look at forum icons that well do you? I've been here for a whole lot longer than you. And your not the first counter-missionary convert to Judaism I have ran into in this place. Or others..... Your ignorance is growing in bounds. I saw you come, and I will see you go.

I attacked nobody, I stood up for the rules of the forum. Your purpose is/was clear. If you found it an attack to be held to forum rules then you have quite a comprehension problem.

Click to expand...

Normally, if someone violates the rules, you report their posts and it goes to the moderators. You don't make blog posts that pull up the person's personal history and their real name. Another rule of this forum is that people have the right to their privacy and anonymity. I realize - tu quoque - but still. This is not indignation. This is just mean-spiritedness.

Shimshon said:

You don't look at forum icons that well do you? I've been here for a whole lot longer than you.

Click to expand...

I had a different username that was deleted and changed to this one. That's why it shows one year. However, the point is not how long you've been on CF but how long you've been actively posting on the MJ forum. You have just shown up recently and done all you can to create a hostile environment.

You went from January 22 to December 14 without posting a single time in the MJ forum (or on CF at all). You showed up just before I left for a visit to the States. By the time I got back, you were already attacking me.

yonah_mishael said:

I had a different username that was deleted and changed to this one. That's why it shows one year. However, the point is not how long you've been on CF but how long you've been actively posting on the MJ forum. You have just shown up recently and done all you can to create a hostile environment.

You went from January 22 to December 14 without posting a single time in the MJ forum (or on CF at all). You showed up just before I left for a visit to the States. By the time I got back, you were already attacking me.

Click to expand...

Would you believe I kept reading yet did not post? AND I started again because YOU and your friends were doing the hora on the forum rules....calling us Christians and denying any Jewishness at all. VERY counter-missionary. GET of it Yonah. You can try and debase me all you want. The point is, you don't like loosing your voice in a Messianic JEWISH forum.

BTW, I don't attack individuals... stop lying. I implored the forum to uphold the rules. How rude of me. Now your want to rant in the open forums about it. AGAIN, against the rules.

For someone who says they care about us, you sure don't show it. Other than leading others into breaking the rules with you. THEM you will applaud.

Shimshon said:

Would you believe I kept reading yet did not post? AND I started again because YOU and your friends were doing the hora on the forum rules....calling us Christians and denying any Jewishness at all. VERY counter-missionary. GET of it Yonah. You can try and debase me all you want. The point is, you don't like loosing your voice in a Messianic JEWISH forum.

BTW, I don't attack individuals... stop lying. I implored the forum to uphold the rules. How rude of me. Now your want to rant in the open forums about it. AGAIN, against the rules.

For someone who says they care about us, you sure don't show it. Other than leading others into breaking the rules with you. THEM you will applaud.

Click to expand...

This is empty. Nothing to respond to.

How Can Christians Love the Jewish People?


By preaching Jesus Christ to them, and saving them! Lol! (trick question?)

Delivering them from their father the devil (John 8:44)

Bringing them to our Father Abraham in Christ;

(Rom 4:16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Now they can be Chosen with us !

(1Pe 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

That is how a Christian saved me from Judahism.

Heavens said:

How Can Christians Love the Jewish People?


By preaching Jesus Christ to them, and saving them! Lol! (trick question?)

Delivering them from their father the devil (John 8:44)

Bringing them to our Father Abraham in Christ;

(Rom 4:16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Now they can be Chosen with us !

(1Pe 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

That is how a Christian saved me from Judahism.

Click to expand...

You practiced Judaism at one time?

LittleLambofJesus said:

You practiced Judaism at one time?

Click to expand...

Hi lloj
No, I was born into it. But as most Jews, my family is atheist, some I guess are Cabalists, which is no doubt worse. There was always the idea that we had some kind of world wide purpose. Now I'm afraid they are right, though not what they think.
I have nothing to brag about of that heritage that is for sure. Without Christ I was nothing. Without Christ, they are nothing. No hope. Strangers from the covenants of promise. Aliens from the hope of Israel without Christ.

You have no idea how thankful I am that Jesus sent a man of God to me. I consider myself as extremely fortunate as Paul to be called out from such a deluded life of self importance. Now I am of the true Israel in Christ and a praise Him so!
May He move in this thread too lol, there is a lot of repair needed here from what I see so far...

Blessings!

Heavens said:

Hi lloj
No, I was born into it. But as most Jews, my family is atheist, some I guess are Cabalists, which is no doubt worse. There was always the idea that we had some kind of world wide purpose. Now I'm afraid they are right, though not what they think.
I have nothing to brag about of that heritage that is for sure. Without Christ I was nothing. Without Christ, they are nothing. No hope. Strangers from the covenants of promise. Aliens from the hope of Israel without Christ.

You have no idea how thankful I am that Jesus sent a man of God to me. I consider myself as extremely fortunate as Paul to be called out from such a deluded life of self importance. Now I am of the true Israel in Christ and a praise Him so!
May He move in this thread too lol, there is a lot of repair needed here from what I see so far...

Blessings!

Click to expand...

So the majority of Jews are either atheists or kabbalists? Hmm.... Thanks for that.

Shimshon said:

AND I started again because YOU and your friends were doing the hora on the forum rules....calling us Christians and denying any Jewishness at all.

Click to expand...

I'm really not understanding what you are talking about. There weren't many posts even being made as of late and Yonah is the only (Non-Messianic) Jew who was posting . I come in front time to time but I am very careful not to go against the rules. So what exactly is bothering you?

Heavens said:

Hi lloj
But as most Jews, my family is atheist, some I guess are Cabalists, which is no doubt worse.

Click to expand...

Really?

While Heavens comments seem over the top, are they? How bout if we substitute the word "agnostic". I was in an interfaith marriage and was more active in the Jewish community than Christian for 12 yrs or so.
It's hard to generalize but I saw many families that got interested in going to synagogue but faded after completion of bat or bar mitzvah.
I spoke to my podiatrist in Dec. He said his son was agnostic and told him, How could there be a God that would allow the Holocaust happen?
Sad but probably not that uncommon.

The worldwide Jewish population is 13.3 million Jews

Click to expand...

The present estimate for Orthodox Jews in Eretz Yisrael is between 900 thousand and one million; in North America, between 550-650 thousand; and in the rest of the world between 120-150 thousand, making for a total of between 1.67-1.8 million

Click to expand...

While 43% of the population described itself as non-religious, only 5% of the population described itself as anti-religious. A majority described themselves as traditional or more (35% traditional, 12% religious, 5% haredi), and even the secular population keeps quite a few Mitzvot as we shall see. The Israeli population still overwhelmingly identifies itself with their Jewish identity. 98% put up Mezuzahs, and a large majority fast on Yom Kippur, don’t eat chometz on Pesach, have a Seder and light Menorahs on Chanukah.

Click to expand...

Yet, in a much smaller way, Israelis are beginning to mimic the trends of personalized religion we wrote about Americans in our last edition. On the one hand belief in G-d is slightly up from the 1990 survey (from 63% - 65%). Belief in reward and punishment, that the Torah is G-d given, and that we are the Chosen Nation is all up. Yet, the number of people defining themselves as traditional has dropped from 42% to 35% while the number who define themselves as non-religious has risen from 38% to 43%. This reflects a greater polarization of Israeli society, and it means that future kiruv efforts towards the secular Israeli population are likely to become more challenging.

Click to expand...

Some interesting facts according to Judaism Online

Thanks for finding and sharing this info. I always assumed the numbers of religious people in Israel would be much higher than that.

You'd be surprised also at how many of those who profess to be religious are mystic Cabalists.

Nu?

How can Christians not love Jews? We are two sects of the same religion. We are persecuted together.

Pope Benedict said to his father when he quit Hitler youth "you cannot be both Nazi and Catholic, it is impossible" I would say You can not be both antisemetic and Christian. It is impossible.

It's pretty simple. Treat us with the same fairness and dignity any human being deserves, encourage us to observe our covenant, and don't try to convert us. Since you asked.