Isiah 45:7 - God created evil

98cwitr

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But if God knew they'd sin, then did they really have a choice if God chose to put the tree there and create them with a mind that would not otherwise but choose to sin? God had to decree sin to enter the world to demonstrate His love and justice, and it pleased Him to have Christ killed to glorify Themselves. And if God decreed something, than does man have the will to resist that decree? If we were chosen before the foundations of the world, then God must have decreed sin before the foundation of the world.

thank you...said the words I couldn't find.....
 
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Osage Bluestem

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But if God knew they'd sin, then did they really have a choice if God chose to put the tree there and create them with a mind that would not otherwise but choose to sin? God had to decree sin to enter the world to demonstrate His love and justice, and it pleased Him to have Christ killed to glorify Themselves. And if God decreed something, than does man have the will to resist that decree? If we were chosen before the foundations of the world, then God must have decreed sin before the foundation of the world.

God did decree that sin would take place before the foundation of the world. He did all of this for the benefit of his elect and to glorify his name in them.

Adam is still guilty of his sin because he had free will and made the choice to sin by himself out of his own heart with evil intentions.

God used the best means possible to bring about the best situation possible. His intentions are good and his plan is perfect. Man in his sin isn't omnicient. His intent is evil and his plan is foolish.

We can see the distinction clearly in the story of Joseph when he was sold into slavery.

Genesis 50:19-20
19 But Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
 
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98cwitr

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To glorify not only Himself in His mercy but also justice; Romans 9:18-24. :)

Verse 23 strikes home...yet I am still left contemplating the impact of that upon the omniscience of God as a whole.

Who are the objects of mercy?
Who are the objects of His wrath?
 
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the particular baptist

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Verse 23 strikes home...yet I am still left contemplating the impact of that upon the omniscience of God as a whole.

Who are the objects of mercy?
Who are the objects of His wrath?

vs24 are the objects of mercy the rest are not.
 
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the particular baptist

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His elect?

Doesn't that negate John 3:16?

Not at all. For instance in
John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.
In reality it was not the entire world, but big crowds.

The world in John 3:16 is better understood cosmos, His creation, and John qualifies who in the world, the believing ones in Him.

John wrote in his last letter to the churches;
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation..
Redeemed us to God = Purchased us to God...out of.
 
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faceofbear

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His elect?

Doesn't that negate John 3:16?

Christ didn't die for the world, nor does He love the world collectively as He does the elect, in fact, Romans 9 expressively states differently. John 3:16 is stating that God loved the elect of all time, the "world" of the elect, not the entirety of all men, or else all men would be saved.

I'll give you an example:

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Romans 3:23-24
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

If we take "all" or "world" to mean literally all people and the entirety of mankind, all men would be saved, but they aren't. So, logically, world means the elect in John 3:16 because Christ laid down His life for the sheep (John 10:15) and will save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21), not all people.

The "whosoever believeth" in John 3:16 is literally translated "all believeth," therefore, it's not saying that all men can believe and be saved, but that those who do believe are saved, but not necessarily because they believe, but because they faith is evidence of their election and their conscience bears witness that Christ died for them.

John 3:16

Ver. 16. For God so loved the world,.... The Persic version reads "men": but not every man in the world is here meant, or all the individuals of human nature; for all are not the objects of God's special love, which is here designed, as appears from the instance and evidence of it, the gift of his Son: nor is Christ God's gift to every one; for to whomsoever he gives his Son, he gives all things freely with him; which is not the case of every man. Nor is human nature here intended, in opposition to, and distinction from, the angelic nature; for though God has showed a regard to fallen men, and not to fallen angels, and has provided a Saviour for the one, and not for the other; and Christ has assumed the nature of men, and not angels; yet not for the sake of all men, but the spiritual seed of Abraham; and besides, it will not be easily proved, that human nature is ever called the world: nor is the whole body of the chosen ones, as consisting of Jews and Gentiles, here designed; for though these are called the world, Joh 6:33; and are the objects of God's special love, and to them Christ is given, and they are brought to believe in him, and shall never perish, but shall be saved with an everlasting salvation; yet rather the Gentiles particularly, and God's elect among them, are meant; who are often called "the world", and "the whole world", and "the nations of the world", as distinct from the Jews; see Ro 11:12, compared with Mt 6:32. The Jews had the same distinction we have now, the church and the world; the former they took to themselves, and the latter they gave to all the nations around: hence we often meet with this distinction, Israel, and the nations of the world; on those words,

""let them bring forth their witness", that they may be justified, Isa 43:9 (say {b} the doctors) these are Israel; "or let them hear and say it is truth", these are "the nations of the world".''

And again {c},

"the holy, blessed God said to Israel, when I judge Israel, I do not judge them as "the nations of the world":''

and so in a multitude of places: and it should be observed, that our Lord was now discoursing with a Jewish Rabbi, and that he is opposing a commonly received notion of theirs, that when the Messiah came, the Gentiles should have no benefit or advantage by him, only the Israelites; so far should they be from it, that, according to their sense, the most dreadful judgments, calamities, and curses, should befall them; yea, hell and eternal damnation.

"There is a place (they say {d},) the name of which is "Hadrach", Zec 9:1. This is the King Messiah, who is, Krw
dx, "sharp and tender"; sharp to "the nations", and tender to "Israel".''

And so of the "sun of righteousness", in Mal 4:2, they say {e},

"there is healing for the Israelites in it: but the idolatrous nations shall be burnt by it.''

And that {f}

"there is mercy for Israel, but judgment for the rest of the nations.''

And on those words in Isa 21:12, "the morning cometh", and also the night, they observe {g},

"the morning is for the righteous, and the night for the wicked; the morning is for Israel, and the night for "the nations of the world".''

And again {h},

"in the time to come, (the times of the Messiah,) the holy, blessed God will bring "darkness" upon "the nations", and will enlighten Israel, as it is said, Isa 60:2.''

Once more {i},

"in the time to come, the holy, blessed God will bring the nations of the world, and will cast them into the midst of hell under the Israelites, as it is said, Isa 43:3.''

To which may be added that denunciation of theirs {k}

"woe to the nations of the world, who perish, and they know not that they perish: in the time that the sanctuary was standing, the altar atoned for them; but now who shall atone for them?''

Now, in opposition to such a notion, our Lord addresses this Jew; and it is as if he had said, you Rabbins say, that when the Messiah comes, only the Israelites, the peculiar favourites of God, shall share in the blessings that come by, and with him; and that the Gentiles shall reap no advantage by him, being hated of God, and rejected of him: but I tell you, God has so loved the Gentiles, as well as the Jews,

that he gave his only begotten Son; to, and for them, as well as for the Jews; to be a covenant of the people, the Gentiles, the Saviour of them, and a sacrifice for them; a gift which is a sufficient evidence of his love to them; it being a large and comprehensive one, an irreversible and unspeakable one; no other than his own Son by nature, of the same essence, perfections, and glory with him; begotten by him in a way inconceivable and expressible by mortals; and his only begotten one; the object of his love and delight, and in whom he is ever well pleased; and yet, such is his love to the Gentiles, as well as Jews, that he has given him, in human nature, up, into the hands of men, and of justice, and to death itself:

that whosoever believeth in him, whether Jew or Gentile,

should not perish, but have everlasting life;
See Gill on "Joh 3:15".

{b} T. Bab. Avoda Zara, fol. 2. 1. {c} Ib. fol. 4. 1. Vid. T. Bab. Sanhedrin, fol. 91. 2. & Bere[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] Rabba, fol. 11. 3. {d} Shirhashirim Rabba, fol. 24. 1. Jarchi & Kimchi in Zech. ix. 1. {e} Zohar in Gen. fol. 112. 2. {f} Zohar in Exod. fol. 15. 1, 2. {g} T. Hieros. Taaniot, fol. 64. 1. {h} Shemot Rabba, sect. 14. fol. 99. 4. {i} Ib sect. 11. fol. 98. 3. {k} T. Bab. Succa, fol. 55. 2.

Taken From: John Gill's Commentary
 
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Note the following in relation to God "creating evil" even though in the KJV of Isaiah 45:7, evil is no doubt synonymous with "disaster" in the NIV. When considering what the Bible says about God and moral evil, consider the respective contexts and implications of the following. And of course I believe the Bible clearly and universally affirms the holiness and sinlessness of God.

... For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the LORD commanded Moses. Joshua 11:20 (The Canaanites sinned in fighting the LORD's people.)

... the sword shall never depart from your house ... Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. And I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor ... 2 Samuel 12:10a, 11a cf. following chapters (rape, murder, and treason of and by David's children)

Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "go number Israel and Judah" (2 Sam. 24:1). Although 1 Chron. 21:1 notes that God used Satan in inciting David, here in 2 Sam. 24:1, God is clearly taking the lead in the act of inciting David to take the census for which God later punished David as the narrative records.

One recalls James 1:13 (God does not tempt anyone to sin); there is a difference apparently between encouraging others to sin and doing something righteous which has the intended effect of manipulating fallen nature to do what a fallen nature does--but I'm not sure I put that in the right terms.

"[God] turned their [i.e., the Egyptians'] hearts to hate his people, to deal craftily with his people" (Psalm 105:25).

... Nation was crushed by nation and city by city, for God troubled them with every sort of distress. 2 Chronicles 15:6

... Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, and I defiled them [NIV: let them be defiled] through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 20:25-26

... For before those days there was no wage for man or any wage for beast, neither was there any safety from the foe for him who went out or came in, for I set every man against his neighbor. Zechariah 8:10

... this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men ... Acts 2:23

... the law came in to increase the trespass ... Rom. 5:20

... So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. Romans 9:18 (Is hardening merely passive on God's part?)

... For from him and through him and to him are all things. Romans 11:36

... him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Ephesians 1:11b

... they refused to love God and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned ... 2 Thessalonians 2:10b-11a Cf. 1 Kings 22:13-28 (i.e., God sends demons to deceive, but be careful of parable-to-reality inferences).
 
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98cwitr

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Christ didn't die for the world

Stopped reading right there...that's a big, fat lie!

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
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faceofbear

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Stopped reading right there...that's a big, fat lie!

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

If you read the rest of the post, you'd understand in my explanation, once again:

Proverbs 18:13
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. (KJV)

So then if He atoned for the whole world, why aren't all men saved? :) Your misunderstanding John's point. His epistles was written to believers of John's time. The reference to whole world, is believers past and future, hence we can also say, Christ atoned not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world (Paul, Peter, and anyone in the future, etc.), but when we say "whole world," we simply mean God's elect.

If Christ atoned for the whole world, then His precious blood was wasted because not all men are saved and His blood is removed of it's efficacy. Surely you don't believe Christ's blood was wasted? If you believe Christ died for the whole world, you're not a Calvinist as I thought you were? Christ's blood is sufficient to save all mankind, because it is precious, but He did not die for all men because His blood is only meant to save the elect, thus it is only efficacious for the elect and it is only an atonement for the elect, not universal.

1 John 2:2

Ver. 2. And he is the propitiation for our sins,.... For the sins of us who now believe, and are Jews:

and not for ours only; but for the sins of Old Testament saints, and of those who shall hereafter believe in Christ, and of the Gentiles also, signified in the next clause:

but also for [the sins] of the whole world; the Syriac version renders it, "not for us only, but also for the whole world"; that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles amle, "the world"; and
Mlweh lk, "the whole world"; and Mlweh twmwa, "the nations of the world" {l}; See Gill on "John 12:19"; and the word "world" is so used in Scripture; see Joh 3:16; and stands opposed to a notion the Jews have of the Gentiles, that hrpk Nhl Nya, "there is no propitiation for them" {m}: and it is easy to observe, that when this phrase is not used of the Gentiles, it is to be understood in a limited and restrained sense; as when they say {n},

"it happened to a certain high priest, that when he went out of the sanctuary, amle ylwk, "the whole world" went after him;''

which could only design the people in the temple. And elsewhere {o} it is said,

"amle ylwk, "the "whole world" has left the Misna, and gone after the "Gemara";''

which at most can only intend the Jews; and indeed only a majority of their doctors, who were conversant with these writings: and in another place {p},

"amle ylwk, "the whole world" fell on their faces, but Raf did not fall on his face;''

where it means no more than the congregation. Once more, it is said {q}, when

"R. Simeon ben Gamaliel entered (the synagogue), amle ylwk, "the whole world" stood up before him;''

that is, the people in the synagogue: to which may be added {r},

"when a great man makes a mourning, amle ylwk, "the whole world" come to honour him;''

i.e. a great number of persons attend the funeral pomp: and so these phrases, ygylp al amle ylwk, "the whole world" is not divided, or does not dissent {s}; yrbo amle ylwk, "the whole world" are of opinion {t}, are frequently met with in the Talmud, by which, an agreement among the Rabbins, in certain points, is designed; yea, sometimes the phrase, "all the men of the world" {u}, only intend the inhabitants of a city where a synagogue was, and, at most, only the Jews: and so this phrase, "all the world", or "the whole world", in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, Lu 2:1; and so it is in this epistle, 1Jo 5:19; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption; for besides these things, it may be further observed, that for whose sins Christ is a propitiation, their sins are atoned for and pardoned, and their persons justified from all sin, and so shall certainly be glorified, which is not true of the whole world, and every man and woman in it; moreover, Christ is a propitiation through faith in his blood, the benefit of his propitiatory sacrifice is only received and enjoyed through faith; so that in the event it appears that Christ is a propitiation only for believers, a character which does not agree with all mankind; add to this, that for whom Christ is a propitiation he is also an advocate, 1Jo 2:1; but he is not an advocate for every individual person in the world; yea, there is a world he will not pray for Joh 17:9, and consequently is not a propitiation for them. Once more, the design of the apostle in these words is to comfort his "little children" with the advocacy and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, who might fall into sin through weakness and inadvertency; but what comfort would it yield to a distressed mind, to be told that Christ was a propitiation not only for the sins of the apostles and other saints, but for the sins of every individual in the world, even of these that are in hell? Would it not be natural for persons in such circumstances to argue rather against, than for themselves, and conclude that seeing persons might be damned notwithstanding the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, that this might, and would be their case. In what sense Christ is a propitiation, See Gill on "Ro 3:25". The Jews have no notion of the Messiah as a propitiation or atonement; sometimes they say {w} repentance atones for all sin; sometimes the death of the righteous {x}; sometimes incense {y}; sometimes the priests' garments {z}; sometimes it is the day of atonement {a}; and indeed they are in the utmost puzzle about atonement; and they even confess in their prayers {b}, that they have now neither altar nor priest to atone for them; See Gill on "1Jo 4:10".

{l} Jarchi in Isa. liii. 5. {m} T. Hieros. Nazir, fol. 57. 3. Vid. T. Bab. Succa, fol. 55. 2. {n} T. Bab. Yoma, fol. 71. 2. {o} T. Bab. Bava Metzia, fol. 33. 2. {p} T. Bab. Megilla, fol. 22. 2. {q} T. Bab. Horayot, fol. 13. 2. {r} Piske Toseph. Megilla, art. 104. {s} T. Bab. Cetubot, fol. 90. 2. & Kiddushin, fol. 47. 2. & 49. 1. & 65. 2. & Gittin, fol. 8. 1. & 60. 2. {t} T. Bab. Kiddushin, fol. 48. 1. {u} Maimon. Hilch. Tephilla, c. 11. sect. 16. {w} Zohar in Lev. fol. 29. 1. {x} Ib. fol. 24. 1. T. Hieros. Yoma, fol. 38. 2. {y} T. Bab. Zebachim, fol. 88. 2. & Erachin, fol. 16. 1. {z} T. Bab. Zebachim, ib. T. Hieros. Yoma, fol. 44. 2. {a} T. Bab. Yoma, fol. 87. 1. & T. Hieros. Yoma, fol. 45. 2, 3. {b} Seder Tephillot, fol. 41. 1. Ed. Amsterd.​
 
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faceofbear

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I see what you mean faceofbear. He didn't die for the WHOLE world...but for all that believe...now if the whole world were the elect... His blood would be sufficient.

His blood was poured out for the sheep to save all that the Father gives Him. His death was not intended for the entirety of mankind. If the atonement was intended by God for all mankind, all mankind would be saved.

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (KJV)

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. (KJV)

John 10:15
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. (KJV)

If Christ died for all mankind, I'd imagine He is very disappointed in Heaven right now considering the numbers His blood did not redeem.
 
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98cwitr

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You're are completely wrong dude...completely, κόσμος is the key word here:

καὶ αὐτὸς ἱλασμός ἐστιν περὶ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν, οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετέρων δὲ μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου.

κόσμος,n \{kos'-mos}
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government 2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3 3) the world, the universe 4) the circle of the earth, the earth 5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family 6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ 7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly 7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ 8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort 8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc) 8b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

This interpretation of the word completely matches to Christ's saying in:

Mark 2:17
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

If you are right...then Jesus only really came for the "healthy" and the righteous. Clearly not true.

I get what you are saying...I really do, but we can't deny what is written. Christ died for all, and those that then turn and trample on the blood of Christ are no longer offered salvation (reference Hebrews 10). Whether the trampling be predestined or not is beyond the scope of this conversation.

If what you're saying be true, that gift is only offered to a select few from the get-go and not everyone.

Why would God only want so few of us?
 
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the particular baptist

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You're are completely wrong dude...completely, κόσμος is the key word here:

καὶ αὐτὸς ἱλασμός ἐστιν περὶ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν, οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετέρων δὲ μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου.

κόσμος,n \{kos'-mos}
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government 2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3 3) the world, the universe 4) the circle of the earth, the earth 5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family 6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ 7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly 7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ 8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort 8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc) 8b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19


I get what you are saying...I really do, but we can't deny what is written. Christ died for all, and those that then turn and trample on the blood of Christ are no longer offered salvation (reference Hebrews 10). Whether the trampling be predestined or not is beyond the scope of this conversation.

You're saying The Atonement paid for the sins of everyone already in hell for 4 thousand years before Christ and everyone that has gone to hell for the past 2 thousand years and everyone that will be sent to hell till till the Last Day ?

You're advocating an open-ended Atonement, which is no atonement at all, unless the will of man be added to it to give it power ?

Furthermore, if Christ did indeed pay for the sins of every man that ever lived on what basis are people sent to hell if all their sins are paid ?

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
 
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98cwitr

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You're saying The Atonement paid for the sins of everyone already in hell for 4 thousand years before Christ and everyone that has gone to hell for the past 2 thousand years and everyone that will be sent to hell till till the Last Day ?

You're advocating an open-ended Atonement, which is no atonement at all, unless the will of man be added to it to give it power ?

Furthermore, if Christ did indeed pay for the sins of every man that ever lived on what basis are people sent to hell if all their sins are paid ?

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Because people kept sinning; unrepentant of their deeds!

Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”


Luke 18
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


2 Peter

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


^^^If Christ didn't die for everyone that verse is a flat out lie.
 
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the particular baptist

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Because people kept sinning; unrepentant of their deeds!

Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”


Luke 18
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Unrepentance is a sin for which Christ died also. Thus far, you cant get around the "double payment" if you are an advocate for both Hell and Universal Atonement.

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he justified also : and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Salvation is altogether God's doing; the electing before the worlds were made, Calvary ie: justification, the effectual call in time of His people, all the way into glory. All God's doing. Not a single drop of Blood was spilled for anyone in Hell (Revelation 5:9-10).
 
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the particular baptist

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2 Peter

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


^^^If Christ didn't die for everyone that verse is a flat out lie.

Look closely. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord is longsuffering TO US-WARD. That who should not perish ? THE US-WARD.

Who is the book of 2 Peter written to ? 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
 
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Look closely. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord is longsuffering TO US-WARD. That who should not perish ? THE US-WARD.

Who is the book of 2 Peter written to ? 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

If your explanation of that verse is correct then you just shot down the perseverance of the saints.
 
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