Catholic...?

To the OP:
Go and talk to a local priest or a nun. They do a wonderful job at explaining the faith without some argumentative, debating environment.

When I was interested in Roman Catholicism, they did a great job at explaining the Roman Catholic meaning of the things that maybe you have heard of. I word it like that, because too many times we see things said in a way about each church in a manner that is only based in the person's dissent. To actually hear someone, verbally state the meaning, face to face, sure beats than most ways of trying to understand.

The same thing helped me when I was interested in the Eastern Orthodox Church. I attended Vesper Services and such.

I mean no offense to you as a Christian or anyone else, but relying on the round table of who is right or who is wrong, blah blah, blah blah won't help you make a decision. Only someone of that church and you interacting is going to help you out. Experiencing whatever it is yourself is the only way that will help you make a decision either way. Reading arguments back and forth will only leave your mind thinking and thinking and there's only so much thinking you can do when the ball is in your court to go out and see if that is what you want for yourself.

You are going to be working out the argumentative side in your own head for some time. Experiences help concrete a better way of saying, "Yes I will become that" or "No I won't become that".

I'm curious, to the OP, what are your primary reasons for this inquiry? Are you currently interested in a Protestant lady? Do you want to keep the dating pool as broad as possible? Are you looking for reasons not to convert to the Catholic church?

Just curious if there was a defined reason for this inquiry or if you were more curious and looking for opinions.

Stravinsk said:

ooohh....but I'm not "hiding", S.A. - the videos are easier to link and do a better job than I can do typing pages and pages of text.

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He, he, he, it's a well known fact that people only read the first line anyway.

Themistocles said:

I don't really date but I was wondering, theoretically, whether or not it would be a smart thing to date someone when my religion is somewhat in flux. Like would it be fair to the other person. I've heard of Protestant women whose husbands convert (or vice versa) after marriage, who feel as though there's been some sort of bait and switch. I suppose the best solution is just to tell any girl I'm interested in that I'm thinking about becoming a RC and let her decide. But that gets to the real point...

To answer my own question, when I was a fully believing Protestant, I would have happily dated a Catholic and wouldn't have seen any obstacles to marrying one (though I knew precious little of the faith then). As I think about becoming a Catholic, I sort of think that I wouldn't marry a Protestant. I might date one, especially during this inquiry phase, but only with the idea of her converting eventually. Which seems unfair. And I wanted to get some other perspectives.

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That brings up more questions and statements.

Why aren't you dating?

I would figure when it comes to religion that honesty is the way to go. Why wouldn't someone fully disclose that they are currently of a certain denomination but thinking of being received into the Catholic Church?

Missionary dating is bad. If you want to date someone Catholic, date someone Catholic. Remember also that people do have changes of heart sometimes and don't hinge the whole relationship on her being Catholic and not also on mutual affection, shared interests, and the like. (Does that ever even need to be said though? I don't know.)

Y'know, I can quote theologians long dead for hours, but what's the point? All I have to do is see the fruit of what modern "religion" has achieved. Frankly, the fact that Catholics are good at defending their faith means they must have had plenty of practice.

Let's look at it this way: The Catholic Church spent centuries conducting Mass in a foreign language that no one had spoken in centuries. In fact, it was so recently that the church had abandoned that policy that my mom still remembers Masses in Latin. How is that going to help anyone?

What about idolatry? Why do I walk into a church and see dozens of graven images? How is a statue of Mary supposed to help me live a Christ-centered life? It's ONE OF THE FIRST THREE COMMANDMENTS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

Let's talk about the unbelievable callousness the church exhibited during the priest scandal. Instead of removing priests from ministry and turning them over to law enforcement, they sent them to other parishes, only to leave behind a trail of ruined lives. At my church, you have to pass a background check just to volunteer with kids — as it should be. There are always going to be bad apples, but if you don't remove them, it will ruin the whole bunch. They spent more effort defending priests than they did children. Is that a church I want to be a part of? Check out the film "Deliver Us from Evil." It's a pretty gut-wrenching documentary of how the Catholic Church allowed a pedophile to serve as a priest for decades.

And I don't want to hear another Catholic complain that he/she is persecuted. When I lived in the Northeast, I heard time and time again how my church was a cult because it wasn't led by someone who spoke Latin and wore a funny-looking hat.

smacky ramone said:

What about idolatry? Why do I walk into a church and see dozens of graven images? How is a statue of Mary supposed to help me live a Christ-centered life? It's ONE OF THE FIRST THREE COMMANDMENTS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

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While we E Orthodox use icons and not statues...

There's a difference between Adoration and Veneration. All the things of God are worthy of Veneration but only God is worthy of Adoration.

Read up on the Iconoclastic heresy.

Command0182 said:

There's a difference between Adoration and Veneration. All the things of God are worthy of Veneration but only God is worthy of Adoration.

Read up on the Iconoclastic heresy.

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I know that you make a theoretical distinction between the two. Could you explain how it's different practically?

Command0182 said:

While we E Orthodox use icons and not statues...

There's a difference between Adoration and Veneration. All the things of God are worthy of Veneration but only God is worthy of Adoration.

Read up on the Iconoclastic heresy.

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Is the difference between adoration and veneration analogous to the difference between jogging and running? Why do people need to make statues and then make up complex theology to defend it? I don't need to read some overschooled theologian to know what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong.

smacky ramone said:

Is the difference between adoration and veneration analogous to the difference between jogging and running? Why do people need to make statues and then make up complex theology to defend it? I don't need to read some overschooled theologian to know what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong.

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Where you intentionally channeling Steven Colbert there, or just unintentional ironic humor?

smacky ramone said:

Is the difference between adoration and veneration analogous to the difference between jogging and running? Why do people need to make statues and then make up complex theology to defend it? I don't need to read some overschooled theologian to know what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong.

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nothing wrong with using statues, the idea that any type of image is an idol is a very muslim way to think
God commanded statues of Cherubs to be placed on top of the Ark of the Covenant
and there were lots of statues in the Temple
1 Kings 6:32
And two doors of olive tree: and he carved upon them figures of cherubims, and figures of palm trees, and carvings very much projecting: and he overlaid them with gold: and he covered both the cherubims and the palm trees, and the other things with gold.

smacky ramone said:

Y'know, I can quote theologians long dead for hours, but what's the point? All I have to do is see the fruit of what modern "religion" has achieved. Frankly, the fact that Catholics are good at defending their faith means they must have had plenty of practice.

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I could have some fun with that one.

That statement there applies to all religions, all denominations, everyone of belief.

Just not for this discussion right? Of course...[rolling of the eyes commences]

Scottish Knight said:

I know that you make a theoretical distinction between the two. Could you explain how it's different practically?

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Adoration (Latin) is love given with deep affection. The term comes from the Latin, meaning to give homage or worship to someone or something.

Veneration (gr. doulia) is a way to show great respect and love for the holy. It is to treat something or someone with reverence, deep respect, and honor. Veneration is distinct from worship (gr. latreia), for worship is a total giving over of the self to be united with God, while veneration is showing delight for what God has done. There can be confusion because one may venerate what one worships as well as venerate others. Veneration is part of worship to the Orthodox faithful, but they show love and respect to more than the God they worship.

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To sum it up. God created all things and He called everything He made good. All of creation is a living icon of God. Because we love God with adoration, we express veneration towards all the thing which He has done and made.

Adoration and veneration may be expressed in very similar ways, prostrations, bows, crossing, kissing. However they are not the same internally. We worship only one Trinitarian God, and we give honor, reverence, respect to all the things made by God.

It would be thoroughly disrespectful to say that we love God, but just don't care much for any of His Creation. God is everywhere present and fills all things.

SneakerPimp53 said:

Where you intentionally channeling Steven Colbert there, or just unintentional ironic humor?

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lol
Folks, I don't need to tell you, that ...

YouTube - Colbert Nails

Themistocles said:

Well, I guess the obstacle is that Catholics really aren't supposed to take communion in other churches. My understanding is that Catholics can, even regularly, attend other services- as long they're not directly contradicting Catholic teaching- but they must also go to mass (it's a mortal sin to miss it, according to Catholicism) and can't accept communion in a non-Catholic Church. No doubt many cradle Catholics violate these principles but I suspect it's fairly rare among converts (except maybe the kind who convert to help their future spouses). This is why I don't see it as all that controversial if a Catholic won't marry a Protestant or a Protestant a Catholic- it does sound like it would impose hardships on the relationship.

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True. There are plenty of Catholics around so I'm not sure you will have to make that choice. I also think if you follow God He will provide for you.

SpiritualAntiseptic said:

Truth isn't personal. It's objective and uncomfortable.

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You don't think following the prompting of the Holy Spirit will help us to follow the truth? My statement was made in the context of this discussion and you have tried to turn it into something else.

ceh85 said:

You don't think following the prompting of the Holy Spirit will help us to follow the truth?

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How do you know it's the Holy Spirit? How do you know that The Holy Spirit isn't already speaking to us, through the Church. And how do you know where to find The Holy Spirit outside of the Church?

Is it The Holy Spirit or is it gut feeling?

ceh85 said:

You don't think following the prompting of the Holy Spirit will help us to follow the truth? My statement was made in the context of this discussion and you have tried to turn it into something else.

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may Christ rule over our hearts and keep us close to Himself at all times

Command0182 said:

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit? How do you know that The Holy Spirit isn't already speaking to us, through the Church. And how do you know where to find The Holy Spirit outside of the Church?

Is it The Holy Spirit or is it gut feeling?

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I think it should be both, ie we should go to church and also live spirit-filled lives. But I don't think God's truth can only be found in one particular denomination.

Command0182 said:

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit? How do you know that The Holy Spirit isn't already speaking to us, through the Church. And how do you know where to find The Holy Spirit outside of the Church?

Is it The Holy Spirit or is it gut feeling?

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I see no reason to limit God
ofcourse I believe that the Holy Spirit protects the Church
but the Spirit is also alive in all believers

Stravinsk said:

ooohh....but I'm not "hiding", S.A. - the videos are easier to link and do a better job than I can do typing pages and pages of text.

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Then don't expect a response other than me saying that their information is false. Anti-Catholicism is based on lies, not truthful inquiry and discussion.

SpiritualAntiseptic said:

Anti-Catholicism is based on lies, not truthful inquiry and discussion.

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Unproven assertion; begging the question.

If you want to convince people, you need to address their arguments rather than dismissing them.