How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

JimfromOhio said:

There are alot of debates relating to Charismatic doctrines. Charismatics are VERY diverse with all forms of denominations. Charismatics do not believe in speaking in tongues are mandatory for salvation. There are many doctrines that Pentecostals and Charismatics do not agree.

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yes you can be a Charismatic any denomination .. except Pentecostal . but i suppose there might be one out there .

but the way the Charismatic message could stretch across denominational lines (even RCC) was something i liked initially about it.

JimfromOhio said:

Word of Faith is a spin off from Pentecostal denomination. Word of Faith is a teaching movement kindred to many Pentecostal churches and individuals around the world. Many of the beliefs are the same except I called Word of Faith "Hyper Pentecostals". They are more extreme.

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While it's true that it came out of Pentecostalism...which is an umbrella term, btw, not a denomination...to me, as one who is Pentecostal...it would be like calling Methodists Anglicans, because John Wesley was Anglican...

Michael Collum said:

What about "Apostolic"?

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Apostolic church that has always existed whether it was called Israel or Christian (first at Antioch). Through Jesus Christ through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we have apostolic succession, but it is not in a line of men who pass along authority from one to another or have special spiritual gifts like Apostles. It is the passing on of apostolic truth that goes from one generation to the next, in the context of the ministry of the truth in local churches around the world.

JimfromOhio said:

Apostolic church that has always existed whether it was called Israel or Christian (first at Antioch). Through Jesus Christ through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we have apostolic succession, but it is not in a line of men who pass along authority from one to another or have special spiritual gifts like Apostles. It is the passing on of apostolic truth that goes from one generation to the next, in the context of the ministry of the truth in local churches around the world.

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I meant Pentecostal groups that call themselves "Apostolic"

Michael Collum said:

I meant Pentecostal groups that call themselves "Apostolic"

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Usually when you see a Pentecostal church with Apostolic on their door it's a Oneness church.

Michael Collum said:

I meant Pentecostal groups that call themselves "Apostolic"

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Those churches that use "Apostolic" are almost always oneness Pentecostals who do believe that tongues are essential for salvation. They are also non-trinitarian. They are a very distinct minority in that regard. The vast overwhelming majority of pentecostals and denominations do not ascribe to that belief. In fact I had read that close to 50% of those in the largest pentecostal denomination in America, AoG, do not speak in tongues. I'm in that 50%.

Dang Drew, beat me to it.

sunlover1 said:

Not true.
It's based on our faith and our actions very much.
God gives the ability to manifest but he doesnt
force them and He doesn't just manifest without
our cooperation as co laborers.

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Faith is the root of works that only the Holy Spirit provides. Without the Holy Spirit, the root is dead, even our own works are dead even as a hypocrite. The life of the church is made up of spiritual attitudes and spiritual motivations, spiritual graces that come from deep within the community. Its a reminder of this verse in Ephesians 4:4, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Jesus is the one who does the real cleansing on the inside. He does that constantly, as we appropriate His forgiveness.

Big Drew said:

Usually when you see a Pentecostal church with Apostolic on their door it's a Oneness church.

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Yepp . same ones .

that reminds me

the teaching "it's no accident that you're here tonight"

meaning .. listen carefully and do what i say ..

that's an interesting rhetorical device .

Mixolydian said:

Those churches that use "Apostolic" are almost always oneness Pentecostals who do believe that tongues are essential for salvation. They are also non-trinitarian. They are a very distinct minority in that regard. The vast overwhelming majority of pentecostals and denominations do not ascribe to that belief. In fact I had read that close to 50% of those in the largest pentecostal denomination in America, AoG, do not speak in tongues. I'm in that 50%.

Dang Drew, beat me to it.

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Well, that's helpful to know, thanks both .

i recall the group i saw was part of something they called "the united churches in Christ"

Big Drew said:

While it's true that it came out of Pentecostalism...which is an umbrella term, btw, not a denomination...to me, as one who is Pentecostal...it would be like calling Methodists Anglicans, because John Wesley was Anglican...

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Yes, John Wesley, Anglican priest, founder of the Methodist movement was never a Methodist just as Martin Luther was never a Lutheran.

JimfromOhio said:

Yes, John Wesley, Anglican priest, founder of the Methodist movement was never a Methodist just as Martin Luther was never a Lutheran.

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yes, as Jesus was never a Christian . but we do take his name Christ . . . so the principle follows .

Big Drew said:

Usually when you see a Pentecostal church with Apostolic on their door it's a Oneness church.

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I agree. Most Pentecostals do not use the word "Apostolic".

Michael Collum said:

yes, as Jesus was never a Christian . but we do take his name Christ . . . so the principle follows .

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You got my point.

JimfromOhio said:

Faith is the root of works that only the Holy Spirit provides. Without the Holy Spirit, the root is dead, even our own works are dead even as a hypocrite. The life of the church is made up of spiritual attitudes and spiritual motivations, spiritual graces that come from deep within the community. Its a reminder of this verse in Ephesians 4:4, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Jesus is the one who does the real cleansing on the inside. He does that constantly, as we appropriate His forgiveness.

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Of course.
But it's up to you to either cooperate with God or not.
IOW, if you do NOT want to prophesy, you will not prophesy.
Even if it's Gods will for you to do so.

Good night . i'll check in again tomorrow .

God bless .

Mixolydian said:

Those churches that use "Apostolic" are almost always oneness Pentecostals who do believe that tongues are essential for salvation. They are also non-trinitarian. They are a very distinct minority in that regard. The vast overwhelming majority of pentecostals and denominations do not ascribe to that belief. In fact I had read that close to 50% of those in the largest pentecostal denomination in America, AoG, do not speak in tongues. I'm in that 50%.

Dang Drew, beat me to it.

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I agree with you too.

I was at a Promise Keepers conference in Boulder way way back, and one of the guys I was with was a oneness pentecostal who was very vocal about his belief that the trinity is doctrinal error.

We were all singing Holy Holy Holy, and he was belting it out in a great tenor voice. I remember thinking, "well this is going to be interesting when we get to the verse that sings, God in three persons, blessed trinity." So, up comes that verse and he sings even louder, "God in Christ Jesus, blessed unity." Rows of men ten deep all around stopped singing and stared gaped jawed at him. Awkward, but funny, moment for the rest of us.

sunlover1 said:

Of course.
But it's up to you to either cooperate with God or not.
IOW, if you do NOT want to prophesy, you will not prophesy.
Even if it's Gods will for you to do so.

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Its not what WE WANT and our DESIRES. It is what God wants and in His will. We are to desire to do God's will out of love and obedience as if we are after God's own heart. Nothing holy and genuine will be done in someone's life until their will is surrendered in active obedience to the Holy Spirit. In our own Christian lives, thinking is crucial, emotions are crucial and serve is crucial. It is not "if we serve according to our desires and abilities" but rather "if we serve according to God's will".

Michael Collum said:

Good night . i'll check in again tomorrow .

God bless .

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Yep, I gotta work tomorrow morning. I work 50 hours a week.

Night

Michael Collum said:

Yepp . same ones .

that reminds me

the teaching "it's no accident that you're here tonight"

meaning .. listen carefully and do what i say ..

that's an interesting rhetorical device .

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Meh...as far as that catchphrase goes I've heard it just about everywhere...in fact, when I went to Midnight Mass for Christmas Eve at the Episcopal church, the rector said something like that...