Young Earth Creationist gathering!

An we could PM each other when somebodys posting a thread so we all could involve our knowledge so they'll have a awful hard time BOMBING our Creation threads.

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We don't need to "Bomb" your threads you guys do it your self. When YECIST posts stuff that has already been shown false it "bombs" there own thread. Yet you still believe in it. As if it will change the facts. When are you guys going to join the real world? You are IMO living in the past, when people thought that the world was flat, and at the center of the universe.

And you are very wrong, and I don't like people calling me evil when I'm not. Just because you accept something doesn't make you evil. If that was the case most of the world would be evil. If you don't want to believe REAL WORLD evidence fine, but don't say it's wrong without proving it's wrong.

Evolution doesn't mean atheist, and you know this. Most evolutionists here believe in god or the probability of god. Yet they are evil. I'm never going to understand some people.

Originally posted by Hector Medina
We all need to unite in order to survive with all these evil evolutionists/atheists here...........


In Christ and Literal Bible,

Hector

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Good day Sir!
I am neither an evolutionist nor atheist. I am your worst nightmare.

I use that what you use and that what science can prove as facts.

You take the Bible literally, well now

Lessen one
You who are simple, gain prudence; you who are foolish, gain understanding.
Proverbs 8:5 (NIV)

Study that what you think is evil before you claim it to be so. Otherwise who is the simple one?

Lesson two
Wise men store up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool invites ruin.
Proverbs 10:14

Your mouth will lead you to ruin if it that of a fool.

Lesson three
He who seeks good finds goodwill, but evil comes to him who searches for it.
Proverbs 11:27

If you search for evil and you shall find it.

Lesson four
Who will rise up for me against the wicked? Who will take a stand for me against evildoers? Unless the LORD had given me help, I would soon have dwelt in the silence of death.
Psalms 94:16-17

To fight evil, without the Lord, is what? Do you think united, without the Lord, you can withstand against evil?

(Yes I respond to flame bait. I could not resist, must be all the evil around here.)

Maybe they could get secret de-coder rings too.

Originally posted by Hector Medina
If you are a YEC please post here 

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How about OEC people. Or people who are just creationists and do not think it is that important how LONG it took God to create the Earth compared to HOW LONG we are going to spend with Him in eternity. So the real question is not the history of mankind, so much as is our name written in the Lambs book of Life.

Is there a thread for people who just long to hear those words: Well done, good and faithful servant. Who care more about what God has to say, compared to what man has to say about it.

G'day,
It is great to be able to support a fellow Christian who is not ashamed to believe what Scripture plainly teaches. I'd encourage you to remain strong in your faith brother.

Personally I think we have an unfair advantage in this debate. We have the word of One who knows everything, was present at the time of Creation, and who is the Creator. It doesn't take a genius to simply retell what he has revealled, and I for one am glad of that.

Some of these people are pretty smart and knowledgeable.

Remember the words of Jesus.

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption-- 31that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the LORD."[

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I read that passage this morning.

Think about your motives and what you want to achieve in these discussions. How is Christ best honoured, and people brought to a knowledge of Him?

The YEC has an advantage in being convinced, but nothing at all to convince with. In dozens of efforts, no one has yet been willing to come out with concrete physical evidence supporting these claims. As such, I consider YEC claims to be purely mythical in nature, unrelated to the physical world in which I live. When I wish to understand this world, I study it. When I wish to understand God, I read the Bible or talk to Him. Neither tool is suited to the other task.

I would beware of calling people evil. Who are you to judge the heart of another person?

--tibac

Seebs,
We have a different view of Genesis apparently. I hold these views firstly because of my faith in God and His word. His word is inspired, and therefore true in all that it asserts whether it is scientific or historical fact.

Do you believe that?

I read Genesis 1 and 2 and interpret it as an accurate historical account of what happened. How do you interpret these chapters?

Originally posted by Micaiah
I read Genesis 1 and 2 and interpret it as an accurate historical account of what happened.

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Which one is accurate? You can't look at two different accounts of creation and say that they are both accurate can you?

J creation and P creation side by side

G'day Rufus,

I've seen your list before and have said previously that the second chapter is a rerun of the first from a different perspective. I understand that many Jewish theologians who recognise the Hebrew manner of thinking take this position.

Can you see any contradictions in these two accounts.

Why would the word of God need to reitterate creation in a differend perspective? Isn't God's perspective the only one that matters?

Well the most glaring contradiction is that the order of creation is different.
For example, in the first story, man is created last. In the second story, he is created first. Also, the first story describes God as creating mankind, whereas the second story describes God as creating Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden (not mentioned at all the first time). The difference is creating a population of humans versus just the first two humans.

Why would the word of God need to reitterate creation in a differend perspective? Isn't God's perspective the only one that matters?

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I agree. Do you believe that? I'd be interested to know your past experiences with Christianity. Seems to be you are more enlightened than many.

Notice the focus of the second chapter. It is an account of the garden of Eden, and the creation of Eve. The first chapter gives a summary of what happened on each day of creation.

Well the most glaring contradiction is that the order of creation is different.
For example, in the first story, man is created last. In the second story, he is created first.

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The order of the text doesn't necessarily follow or imply the order of creation. In verses 4-17 the order implied is that the garden of Eden was created before Adam arrived. The order I get out of verses 18-25 is that the animals and Adam were created before Eve. So far nothing contradicts chapter one. Clearly the writer would not consider it necessary to reiterate the order of Creation simply to satisfy the sceptics. If he gave a clear order in Chapter one, he would assume the reader would use that order in interpreting subsequent descriptions.

Genesis 2:19, to me, says very explicitly that animals (some if not all) were created after Adam. If it doesn't then Genesis really has a time sequence problem. I mean c'mon...

God creates earth
God creates animals
God creates man and woman
Retelling of creating man
Retelling of creating animals
Bringing these animals to man but only after he was created
Oh yeah, then woman is created

That's pretty confusing to me

Also, the first story describes God as creating mankind, whereas the second story describes God as creating Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden (not mentioned at all the first time). The difference is creating a population of humans versus just the first two humans.

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The following are the verses from chapter 1 on the creation of man.

27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
29And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. 31Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

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This passage does not indicate that there was more than one man and woman created on the first day. Chapter 2 confirms there were only two people created on day 6.

Originally posted by Micaiah
I agree. Do you believe that? I'd be interested to know your past experiences with Christianity. Seems to be you are more enlightened than many.

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I'm not a Christian and never really was one. I do have a Christian wife (wildernesse) and we talk about a lot of stuff. I have a lot of experience with translating and analysing Latin texts and Greek and Sanskrit texts to a much lesser extent. I can apply the skills I learned there to discuss the Bible reasonably. I also have an affinity for linguistics which helps, not to mention just plain old experience.

Notice the focus of the second chapter. It is an account of the garden of Eden, and the creation of Eve. The first chapter gives a summary of what happened on each day of creation.

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Yes, the stories are different, and yes that doesn't neccitate that they do contradict. But I don't see how the second one being a retelling of the first one jives with the text itself.

The order of the text doesn't necessarily follow or imply the order of creation.

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Okay. What textual clues to you see that make it appear to not be cronologically?

In verses 4-17 the order implied is that the garden of Eden was created before Adam arrived. The order I get out of verses 18-25 is that the animals and Adam were created before Eve. So far nothing contradicts chapter one.

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Yes, animals are created after Adam but before Eve. (Note the "then" in Genesis 2:18 [NASB].) This contradicts Genesis 1:26 where God creates mankind after the beasts. (Again, note a "then.")

Clearly the writer would not consider it necessary to reiterate the order of Creation simply to satisfy the sceptics. If he gave a clear order in Chapter one, he would assume the reader would use that order in interpreting subsequent descriptions.

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That might work if there was evidence in the Hebrew that they shared a writter. But the evidence points to two separate traditions: a "Priestly" and a "Jehovah" one. Note that those links outline some of the differences between the writers.

Originally posted by Micaiah
The following are the verses from chapter 1 on the creation of man. . . .

This passage does not indicate that there was more than one man and woman created on the first day. Chapter 2 confirms there were only two people created on day 6.

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Okay first note the contradiction in the following two orders.
P (Genesis 1): plants, animals, then mankind, all created on different days.
J (Genesis 2): Adam, plants, animals, then Eve.

True, chapter 2 could have more detail on how God created mankind, but there is no way that chapter 2 can describe the sixth day. If Adam and Eve are created on the sixth day, then plants and animals would also have to be created on that day. Yet this contradicts with Chapter 1.

Troodon.
The sequence of the narration in Chapter 2 does not follow the order of creation, and why should it?

In 2:18-19 the writer is explaining why God made Eve, not giving a chronology of creation. These verses are saying Adam was lonely even though God had created all of the animals, and he had met and named each one. Then God made Eve. I think that is an accurate insight into the nature of man.

Rufus
NASB

18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; (19) I will make him a helper [1] suitable for him."
19 (20) Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and (21) brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.

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I am not a Hebrew scholar, but I don't see reason to interpret this text as meaning man came after the animals.

I'm not a Christian and never really was one. I do have a Christian wife (wildernesse) and we talk about a lot of stuff.

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That seems to imply you had an experience of Christianity in the past. Did you turn away.

I've read wildernesse' posts. I think some of my YEC comments annoy her.

Genesis 2:19
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.

I read this as the LORD God creating animals and birds and then bringing them to the PREEXISTING man. But that's only my interpretation.

True, chapter 2 could have more detail on how God created mankind, but there is no way that chapter 2 can describe the sixth day. If Adam and Eve are created on the sixth day, then plants and animals would also have to be created on that day. Yet this contradicts with Chapter 1.

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Chapter 2 gives a detailed description of day 6, and must also refer to other days of creation since the order was clearly stated in chapter 1.