Question for Lutherans

wow - i have absolutely no clue how to answer your questions, LOL, so i will leave that to those far more knowledgeable (i know that isn't spelled right...) than i.....

but just wanted to say hi and welcome to TCL.....

good questions, btw - something i'm sure i'll learn from, so thanks for asking them....

First we don't believe in unconditional election, it's only the election. Also there is no limited atonement, we believe that God sincerely wants all people to come to him. Simply put the foreknowledge of God is simply that, foreknowledge not forechoosing. We believe that salvation is an act of divine grace, not a sovereign choice. To understand it you would have to leave your terminology behind and understand that our terminology is completely different. TULIP doesn't figure into our doctrine.

The easiest way to figure it out would be to read the BoC sections on election and the saxon visitation. I can't link it because I don't have 50 posts yet but I'm sure someone else would be happy to link it for you.

Well, for one we're not 4 point calvinists, more like 1.5.
Calvinistic election assumes that those not elected for salvation have been elected for damnation. It is not clear whether or not this view believes that (the description would suggest it doesn't, but the Calvinist notion of unconditional election which it supposedly subscribes to does).
I don't think one could say, "All men have a natural ability to repent and believe." is a Lutherean concept.
That followed with, "But as this natural ability was counteracted by a moral inability, God determined to give his efficacious grace to a certain number of the human race, and thus to secure their salvation." It's not about generic grace and efficacious grace, it's about the gift of faith. For Lutherans the difference between unlimited atonement and justification is the Holy Spirit, not differing levels of grace from Christ's death.
Not sure if that helps, and I only am comparing based on the link you posted since I know nothing of them.

Well, for one we're not 4 point calvinists, more like 1.5.

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LOL! Or five point, or Amyraldists for that matter. Yeah, like L_L said, it's a whole different ballgame when you explore the Lutheran viewpoint. It's hard to believe that Calvin spent several years with Luther. One would think at least something would have rubbed off.

Lutheranism 101, Luther's Small Catechism, Why I am Lutheran are a few starts for reading. They can all be purchased at cph.org

QuiltAngel said:

Lutheranism 101, Luther's Small Catechism, Why I am Lutheran are a few starts for reading. They can all be purchased at cph.org

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Those are all great. The one that helped me the most was Amazon.com: Spirituality of the Cross Revised Edition (9780758613035): Gene Edward Veith: Books

Watch this video on Lutheranism and Calvinism by a Lutheran pastor wherein your questions are mentioned (if I remember correctly):

YouTube - Most Magisterial Tulips

Funny thing that you should mention Lutheranism 101. Since I can't post links here is the address.
www dot cph dot org/p-17404-lutheranism-101.aspx?SearchTerm=101

And a searchable BOC.
www dot ilc-online dot org/graphics/assets/media/International%20Lutheran%20Council/Book%20of%20Concord.pdf

LOL!...Note the LCMS supporters in here. Maybe I should prepare to be lynched at some point.

On a more serious note, look into the different synods, not all lutherans have the same view on all things. Of note are the LCMS, ELCA, and WELS. I'm sure everyone in here will tell you that all three have their drawbacks, but for the most part we agree on the important points. As stude already commented, I'm tired of saying "I won't go to THAT lutheran church"

Amyraldism tries to hold onto irresistable grace while recognizing universal atonement, which makes no sense at all.

If grace is not resistable, and we are universally atoned, then it would only be logical to be a universalist. Calvinism cannot stand with universal atonement, because it is a system of logic and by making the hidden things of God the foundation, it pretty much comes as an all or nothing system. Many reject limited atonement but do not work back to see it's effects.

With unconditional election, you have to be careful to realize all it's saying is that our election does not depend on us doing anything or being anything, it depends on Christ alone.

And to get it all straight the key is to give up once saved always saved. You can be saved, but through persistent rejection of God, you can have the Holy Spirit taken from you. See Saul as an example.

If you immediately jumped to "But Saul wasn't in this dispensation" realize that the primary way you understand things is not Lutheran nor Calvinist but dispensational.

Logical_Lutheran said:

LOL!...Note the LCMS supporters in here. Maybe I should prepare to be lynched at some point.

On a more serious note, look into the different synods, not all lutherans have the same view on all things. Of note are the LCMS, ELCA, and WELS. I'm sure everyone in here will tell you that all three have their drawbacks, but for the most part we agree on the important points. As stude already commented, I'm tired of saying "I won't go to THAT lutheran church"

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You've mis-quoted me here. I said that I'm tired of saying, "No, I don't go to that Lutheran Church!" People come up to me asking about the latest shenanigans of the E*CA all the time and that's my standard response. I also usually have a few comments to make that would get me censured here.

Another book, an older one but really good that you might find interesting, it's really small-almost a thick pamphlet-I still use it all the time. It's by Lewis Spitz (former Concordia Sem prof I believe who then I think taught at like Harvard or something), called "Our Church and Others"
You would probably have to look on like ebay or something because I am almost certain it hasn't been printed in many years. He does not hold back in his sharpness, but is very clear and well grounded.

Sorry stude...I was too lazy to look up the actual quote at the time...my bad