Why are so many so threatened?

charismaticace

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I came to this forum for one reason and one reason only: To get answers. As a human being whose love and compassion are infinitesimal compared to God, the idea of bringing a single child into the world knowing it would suffer the agony of eternal torment is incomprehensible to me. Now, if I, a human being, wouldn't commit such an act, why would God? I have prayed about this often I want the Lord to work in me so that I can come to the conclusions He/She/I AM wants me to. Therefore, like any child, I am not satisfied with the stock, "Because I said so," response. This seems to threaten many people on this site. It makes me wonder why. If I brought a thirteen year old girl nine months pregnant to your average church, she would more than likely be shunned, scorned, and whispered about in hallways and corners. If she tried to tell you that it was not a man but an angel who had made her a mother, in all seriousness, you would probably suggest she was delusional. Yet, we hear the story at Christmas and we take it as a matter of course. I wish I could put it a better way, but I want to know why this particular story for want of a better word, is the truth. I am not asking these questions to be 'smart' or instigate arguments, I do believe in Jesus Christ, but I am trying to figure out why I believe in Jesus Christ because if it's just because I happened to be born in a family who had those particular beliefs, what is my walk with Jesus worth?
 

desmalia

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I came to this forum for one reason and one reason only: To get answers.
That's wonderful that you want answers. There's no need for fear of the hard questions. However I would suggest that a much better place to find such answers is in the Bible, not an anonymous forum full of mostly unbelievers. Some of us here may be able to offer some helpful tips. But you want big answers, and they're found in the word of God.


As a human being whose love and compassion are infinitesimal compared to God, the idea of bringing a single child into the world knowing it would suffer the agony of eternal torment is incomprehensible to me. Now, if I, a human being, wouldn't commit such an act, why would God?
This issue could probably be its own thread as it is quite a big topic. I would like to suggest that to understand the purpose of Hell, consider studying more about God's nature, in particular His holiness. That may help shed some light on the bigger picture. We are all sinners, worthy of Hell. All of us. By our very nature, we hate God, and His truth. That He would sacrifice His own son to save any of us is infinitely merciful.


I have prayed about this often I want the Lord to work in me so that I can come to the conclusions He/She/I AM wants me to.
Well, first, He's definitely a "He", not a "She", so that's easy enough to clear up :D. Secondly, keep on praying. And when you pray, pray for the Holy Spirit to open your eyes to the glory of His truth and the depth of your sinful nature.

Therefore, like any child, I am not satisfied with the stock, "Because I said so," response. This seems to threaten many people on this site.
No need for it to. If your questions are asked with a genuine desire to understand, then questions are great. However people tend to sense when there's attitude or accusation behind a question. Is it possible that any of your questions may have come across that way, even if you did not mean them to?

It makes me wonder why. If I brought a thirteen year old girl nine months pregnant to your average church, she would more than likely be shunned, scorned, and whispered about in hallways and corners.
There are a lot of churches around these days that I suspect are not really Christian anymore. However, even then, I don't think most churches would behave as you suggest. I know most I've been to would welcome her and offer her help with her baby in a variety of practical ways.

If she tried to tell you that it was not a man but an angel who had made her a mother, in all seriousness, you would probably suggest she was delusional. Yet, we hear the story at Christmas and we take it as a matter of course.
Fair question. Keep in mind that at the time of Christ's birth the Jewish people were waiting for the Messiah and knew that the prophesies pointed directly to that time. Yet, even so, she was shunned for being unwed and pregnant by those who did not believe. (Note, being pregnant that young was far more standard than in our culture now. People grew up and started families much sooner). Joseph was well within his right to break off their engagement publicly, which would have meant she would be stoned to death for (what they believed to be) her infidelity by the law. However, even before the angel came to him, he had planned to divorce her quietly so that she would not be harmed. Here, we see compassion even before he knew she was carrying the Messiah. Had he handed her to the authorities, they would have been much worse than you feel most churches would today.

As far as taking this account in history as just standard and not examining it for the incredible miracle it was is indeed a danger of being complacent in the church. And we must be careful not to be like that. It's not just a fanciful fairytale to sing songs about. It's a historical event worthy of our study and examination. So it's great that you want to look further into this.

I wish I could put it a better way, but I want to know why this particular story for want of a better word, is the truth. I am not asking these questions to be 'smart' or instigate arguments, I do believe in Jesus Christ, but I am trying to figure out why I believe in Jesus Christ because if it's just because I happened to be born in a family who had those particular beliefs, what is my walk with Jesus worth?
Good for you. These are absolutely vital questions. Never just accept doctrine because it's what you were taught. We must each examine these things to see if they're true. If you have faith, it is your faith, a gift from God, not some extension of your family background. So, keep on asking questions, and don't stop! But again, like I mentioned above, the best place to find them is the God's word itself. There are some fantastic commentaries around as well to help you understand the fuller meanings of the context, such as word definitions and cultures, etc. I'd be happy to recommend some. In the end, no one on a forum is going to be able to perfectly answer all your questions (though we can try to answer as much as possible in our own limited ways, of course). You need to take the time and effort to start prayerfully studying for yourself. It is my prayer that you are doing exactly that. :)

A bit of an aside... if you would like to hear from someone else who asks (and answers) the hard questions, check out Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias. He has lots of free podcasts that you can listen to on iTunes.



A quote that comes to mind:
He that complies against his Will,
Is of his own Opinion still; - Samuel Butler
 
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mrussell

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You want to know why this story is the truth. That is good. Truth is good. One way you can know that it is true is by looking at history. It really happened. There really was a "man" named Jesus. He really did do awesome miracles. He really did cause a stir and He really was murdered. This might be comparable to walking into a Taliban village today without a gun, without a sword and saying "I am God's Son", if you follow Me you will receive the forgiveness of your sins, before Mohammed was I AM. My point is not too many people would do that.

Now after Jesus died His followers had the same threat of receiving the same punishment
After seeing what Jesus went through, most people would have kept quiet, but His followers went out with boldness(again without weapons), declaring that Jesus had risen again. They were heavily persecuted (Just like Jesus said they would be). Read Acts and Paul's letters. Those books are history books. The only thing in this world they had to look forward to was persecution, hardship and death. Why did they not just stay quiet? I will tell you why... they held the Truth in their hearts and they could not remain quiet. All the apostles were martyred except for John according to tradition. For the first Christians it was the same thing. Poverty, persecution and death were not enough to deter them from following Jesus.

Just for the record, not everything that calls itself "Christian" these days is "true Christianity"

Anyway the history is there. There is record of these things that have happened and I am not just talking about the Bible, but the Bible is trustworthy. Jesus did come to earth from heaven, He did die for us and he did rise again. Jesus is the Truth. I hope you will come to believe and follow Him with all your heart like those first Christians
 
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1watchman

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I came to this forum for one reason and one reason only: To get answers.
[To get answers one needs to ask serious and biblical questions. Your hypothetical scenes are a bit odd, I believe.]

As a human being whose love and compassion are infinitesimal compared to God, the idea of bringing a single child into the world knowing it would suffer the agony of eternal torment is incomprehensible to me. Now, if I, a human being, wouldn't commit such an act, why would God? I have prayed about this often I want the Lord to work in me so that I can come to the conclusions He/She/I AM wants me to.
[Part of the reason you have such questions is because you seem to not know God, and are reasoning about irrelevant things perhaps. Do you really think God is a He or She? Are you a true Christian? Do you read the Bible?]

Therefore, like any child, I am not satisfied with the stock, "Because I said so," response. This seems to threaten many people on this site. It makes me wonder why. If I brought a thirteen year old girl nine months pregnant to your average church, she would more than likely be shunned, scorned, and whispered about in hallways and corners. If she tried to tell you that it was not a man but an angel who had made her a mother, in all seriousness, you would probably suggest she was delusional. Yet, we hear the story at Christmas and we take it as a matter of course. I wish I could put it a better way, but I want to know why this particular story for want of a better word, is the truth.
[Of course people would think the 13 y.o. girl you mention is delusional, or on drugs, for she is not the annointed ONLY one to bring the Messiah forth. The Bible story is from THE WORD OF GOD, friend, not someone who wandered into a church meeting. You need to believe the Bible as God's Word. ]

I am not asking these questions to be 'smart' or instigate arguments, I do believe in Jesus Christ, but I am trying to figure out why I believe in Jesus Christ because if it's just because I happened to be born in a family who had those particular beliefs, what is my walk with Jesus worth?

Well, my friend, if you want to find answers begin reading the Word of God and believe it, and trust the Lord. The kind of questions you raise sound so very typical of Pentecostal Christians who reason about mystical things often, rather than follow the Word.

- 1 Watchman
 
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miamited

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Hi Charis,

You write that you are unwilling to accept that some things are as they are just because God says so. I'd like you to consider that that is exactly the problem that Eve had. She wasn't willing to accept that eating the fruit was wrong just because God said so. She looked at the fruit and it was appealing in sight. She heard that it would make her like God. However, rather than just turn and walk away and refuse the fruit based on just the fact that God had told them not to eat of it, she ate.

Just try to comprehend that God is not made up of your common sense and human reasoning. God is above all of that. Jesus told the people of Jerusalem that He could raise up people out of stones. God loves you and He has laid out all the truth that you need to know and, yes, in the end, the claim is, "Well, here it is and I have told you so. It's now your choice, to believe or not. To accept what I have told you as the truth or not."

God bless you in your search for truth.
In Christ, Ted
 
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BigNorsk

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I came to this forum for one reason and one reason only: To get answers. As a human being whose love and compassion are infinitesimal compared to God, the idea of bringing a single child into the world knowing it would suffer the agony of eternal torment is incomprehensible to me. Now, if I, a human being, wouldn't commit such an act, why would God? I have prayed about this often I want the Lord to work in me so that I can come to the conclusions He/She/I AM wants me to. Therefore, like any child, I am not satisfied with the stock, "Because I said so," response. This seems to threaten many people on this site. It makes me wonder why. If I brought a thirteen year old girl nine months pregnant to your average church, she would more than likely be shunned, scorned, and whispered about in hallways and corners. If she tried to tell you that it was not a man but an angel who had made her a mother, in all seriousness, you would probably suggest she was delusional. Yet, we hear the story at Christmas and we take it as a matter of course. I wish I could put it a better way, but I want to know why this particular story for want of a better word, is the truth. I am not asking these questions to be 'smart' or instigate arguments, I do believe in Jesus Christ, but I am trying to figure out why I believe in Jesus Christ because if it's just because I happened to be born in a family who had those particular beliefs, what is my walk with Jesus worth?


The truth is the truth. Things happen everyday that are so strange that if you were a writer of fiction and put them in a story people would hate your writing because it's unbelievable. The story of Jesus is indeed unbelievable.

It's not true because I say it is.

Can one be offered proof beyond one's ability not to believe. No. It happened a long time ago. You have people today who do not believe the Holocaust happened either. God did not chose to work by stacking up such a pile of proof that you just couldn't deny it. He chose to work through his word, that, even though it's completely unbelievable, people believe.
 
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nChrist

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Check out the links in my signature area. Follow along in your own Bible and read the Scriptures in context.

Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
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charismaticace

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God did not chose to work by stacking up such a pile of proof that you just couldn't deny it. He chose to work through his word, that, even though it's completely unbelievable, people believe.

If what you are saying is in fact true, it makes one wonder why God didn't choose to work through proof. Wouldn't that have been a better why to bring people to Him rather than, "Because I said so?" Obviously, so there must be proof somewhere whether or not we have found it is another story and that's what I am looking for and even if I don't, it doesn't mean it's not out there.
 
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phoenixdem

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If what you are saying is in fact true, it makes one wonder why God didn't choose to work through proof. Wouldn't that have been a better why to bring people to Him rather than, "Because I said so?" Obviously, so there must be proof somewhere whether or not we have found it is another story and that's what I am looking for and even if I don't, it doesn't mean it's not out there.

To a Christian, the proof is in the workings of God in the life of the Christian and faith in what cannot be proven in a court of law or in a science lab.
 
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phoenixdem

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If what you are saying is in fact true, it makes one wonder why God didn't choose to work through proof. Wouldn't that have been a better why to bring people to Him rather than, "Because I said so?" Obviously, so there must be proof somewhere whether or not we have found it is another story and that's what I am looking for and even if I don't, it doesn't mean it's not out there.

Well, you haven't come back yet, so I assume you are elsewhere looking for proof. In the Book of Romans, believers are told to live by faith. Faith, therefore, must be a requirement. It is God who gets to decide what is necessary for us. Obedience to God is also a necessary thing. We are also told that the proof that you seek lies all around you.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for
God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his​
eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 
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BiblebelievingChristian

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If what you are saying is in fact true, it makes one wonder why God didn't choose to work through proof.
God did prove His word to be true, and He has done so all through history. Prophecies were fulfilled and miracles were witnessed by many who converted to Christianity after witnessing these miracles. These witnesses were all real people, you can even go to places like Rome or the holy land and see their tombs.
 
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miamited

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Hi Charis,

What would you do. Let's go ahead and work out this issue. You're God. You have created an entire realm and you want everyone for thousands of years to know that you exist and to have indisputable 'proof'. How are you going to do it? What exactly are you going to do to accomplish this?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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I came to this forum for one reason and one reason only: To get answers. As a human being whose love and compassion are infinitesimal compared to God, the idea of bringing a single child into the world knowing it would suffer the agony of eternal torment is incomprehensible to me.

This is where God's sovereignty comes into play. We either accept God for who He is and not question His motives, or we create a god in our own image. The problem is the latter view leads us down to a dark place worshiping an idol of our own making.


Now, if I, a human being, wouldn't commit such an act, why would God? I have prayed about this often I want the Lord to work in me so that I can come to the conclusions He/She/I AM wants me to.

God's ways are above our ways. He doesn't owe you or me an answer.


Therefore, like any child, I am not satisfied with the stock, "Because I said so," response. This seems to threaten many people on this site. It makes me wonder why. If I brought a thirteen year old girl nine months pregnant to your average church, she would more than likely be shunned, scorned, and whispered about in hallways and corners. If she tried to tell you that it was not a man but an angel who had made her a mother, in all seriousness, you would probably suggest she was delusional. Yet, we hear the story at Christmas and we take it as a matter of course. I wish I could put it a better way, but I want to know why this particular story for want of a better word, is the truth. I am not asking these questions to be 'smart' or instigate arguments, I do believe in Jesus Christ, but I am trying to figure out why I believe in Jesus Christ because if it's just because I happened to be born in a family who had those particular beliefs, what is my walk with Jesus worth?

Between the time I was a Roman Catholic and the time I became a born-again Christian, about 10 years give or take, I was basically an agnostic with no faith. I had tried to make sense of the Bible on my own after a near death/drowning experience, but no one could help. I self-medicated to keep my depression under control.

But fortunately for you, there are wonderful people here on Christian Forums who would be more than happy to help. There are a number of Christian books that could also be quite helpful. The books by John Piper, John MacArthur, et al, to name a few, maybe of help to you. Authors from the Reformation Era are excellent, but a bit harder to read. God bless you and pray for wisdom and discernment. I'll pray for you too.
 
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charismaticace

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Are there any primary sources - other than the bible - that record the Resurrection of Christ? I haven't been able to find any - which is not to say they do not exist but surely there should be as a resurrection would be note worthy in the annals of history.
 
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phoenixdem

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Are there any primary sources - other than the bible - that record the Resurrection of Christ? I haven't been able to find any - which is not to say they do not exist but surely there should be as a resurrection would be note worthy in the annals of history.

You say that you are a questioning Christian. What church do you attend?
 
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charismaticace

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You say that you are a questioning Christian. What church do you attend?

I was confirmed as a Presbyterian but have since attended several churches, although none regularly. I have yet to find one where my questions may be answered.
 
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phoenixdem

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For those who seriously question the resurrection of Christ, two thousand years ago, Jerusalem was a backwaters part of the Roman Empire. There were no newspapers or television news reporters. The Jews were just another religious sect to the Roman Empire. There were many religous beliefs in the Roman Empire and everything was accepted as long as they were not a threat to Rome. Read the story of Christ in the gospels. The attitude of the Roman governors is plain.

In the 27th book of Matthew, we read that the Roman and Jewish authorities did not want the resurrection to become public knowledge.

62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the
chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet
alive, After three days I will rise again.

64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third
day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say
unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be
worse than the first.

65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as
sure as ye can.

66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and​
setting a watch.

What would the authorities do when they learned that the body of Christ was missing from the tomb? The guards would have run to report the news and the authorities would have taken steps to ensure that the resurrection wasn't common knowledge. However, those close to Christ knew and reported it in the gospels. I can quote at least four sources: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
 
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