an agnostic's questions on Christianity

Everyone's name can be written, predestined, in the book of Life. However, there comes a time where honest evidence of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is presented, and a person either accepts or rejects these facts: Jesus was and is God in the flesh, died and rose again for the sacrifice for our sins, resurrected to justify us and give us Life, forgiveness of sins, peace, joy and eternal LIFE.

Now if you have rejected the Gospel just presented, God is the judge how much more He will expound the knowledge to you to convince you. I always say, if you want to believe and can't or aren't able, God WILL make a way and you WILL be born again. But if you don't care in the first place whether the whole "story" is true, it's very hard to decide for that.

I was an agnostic in college.

That being said, my perspective on hell is this:

There are degrees of hell. Read Luke 12:41-48. It will be an eternal dying process. The worm dieth not, as the Old Testament says, so the body will never die utterly, but slowly. So physically the person will go thru disease and illness without his creator to supply the healing - for eternity. Spiritually, the person will not be able to find the joy, grace and love of God, since he is separated from God eternally. His soul will have bowed down to Jesus in Revelations (For every knee shall bow) in agreement of his/her punishment. The person will have full knowledge of the loved ones who he can't find anymore, because he is separated from their creator - his too.

God is said to be a consuming fire, a jealous fire. And when I hear of the Lake of Fire, I think of a place for the soul, body, and spirit where God's jealousy for having wanted to redeem that person are finally realized; but they've made the wrong choice in denying the Son of God. They will never be able to extinguish this fire, possibly the most horrific of all the punishment in hell.

When the child who grows up rejecting Christ bows down in Revelations to Jesus, agreeing with his punishment, God will wipe all tears away from the mother of the child, so no more suffering will be. She will accept it just as the boy has accepted it.

My mission with you, Vincent, is to ask you a few questions right now. If you could believe in any creator, would he resemble the Christ Jesus, full of love, mercy and grace? Pretend Jesus is this way, if it's easier for you to think in those terms - He is that way, no pretending needed, but an unbeliever may want to do intentional thinking, pretending, and wishing... Do you want to believe?

If you do, but just don't see it happening right now, we'll keep at it. God has done a 180 with my brain. I was a math/physics/electrical engineer minded person. I could not convince myself of God's existence. But to the extent that I cannot understand, God turned the lie of unbelief into the Truth it always was. Now that that's done, He's working in my heart to believe and trust in His love. But I want to work with you, if you allow me to.

-doug

Vincent - I was also raised as a Catholic. I grew "out" of the religion. I also began to ask many questions.
Regarding hell, I have this simple belief. I don't judge people. I let other people live their life and I let God decide who is going there.
You said that you are an agnostic. It is not my decision to make regarding whether you are going there or not. I could tell you to get on your knees and pray to Him but whether you do or don't is not my decision and whether you are going to be punished or not, is not for me to decide.
Other people will probably believe differently.

vincent14 said:

Hi Doug,

First of all thank you so much for the reply. It was very helpful and I appreciate it. Before I answer your questions I’d like to address a couple of points that you made.
You said in your opening paragraph:
“However, there comes a time where honest evidence of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is presented, and a person either accepts or rejects these facts”
But is it not true that in cultures of other Religions this may not be presented to them at all so therefore they’re not exposed to the Bible or teachings of Christianity in anyway. How can they be blamed for that? Anyone’s Religion is mostly determined by Geographical factors which are pure chance. I count my blessings for example that I was born in Ireland and not under a repressive Islamic regime but it’s pure chance. Had I been born in Afghanistan I would most certainly be a practising Muslim.
Also you say that honest evidence of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is presented but is it really ‘evidence?’ Is it not true that the only proof of Jesus’ sacrifice or at least the supposed significance of that sacrifice is from the Bible which people either accept of they don’t? Therefore it’s more a question of faith. Is it not therefore harder for someone of another faith to simply accept it just because the Bible, which is not their book of faith so to speak, says so?
Hope none of this seems argumentative. I’m looking for a friendly debate on the issue.

With regards to your questions

“If you could believe in any creator, would he resemble the Christ Jesus, full of love, mercy and grace?”

I’m not sure the creator I believe in would resemble Jesus in this way. Of course I believe Jesus existed and was a great man and a lot of good has come from Christianity but my fundamental belief is that if there is a God it’s impossible for us to understand it and it is a God closely connected to Science. The universe is immense with many other galaxies beyond our own and I find it arrogant of people to think that we are the only life out there. If that’s the case where does that leave us and our earthly Religions? I think it’s a shame that Religion divides us in such drastic ways.

“Do you want to believe?”

I really do want to believe in something. It’s depressing to think that this is all there is and that there is no life after this but I’m not sure I can bring myself to think otherwise. I find that the simplistic notion of good Christians go to Heaven and the rest don’t to be fundamentally flawed. It doesn’t address the complexities of human beings such as upbringing which can account for the way a person behaves or mental illness which does likewise. I suppose idealistically I’d love to believe that somehow there is no wrong faith and all Religions are a path to God in someway but I think this may be more of a want than an actual belief.

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what I’ve said whenever you have the time and thank you again for replying. I can tell by your post you’re a good man and practice what you preach.

Take care,

Vincent

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Vincent,

I may not be qualified to answer you completely. It is a matter of faith. But faith comes by hearing the Word of God. So there is an element of base understanding of some evidence in the brain. That understanding comes from creation, minus religion (lol), and conviction of the invisible Holy Ghost, who convicts the whole world of right and wrong. In Romans 1:19-20, Paul writes

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal Godhead; so that they are without excuse;

then the remaining verses tells how after despite knowing about God, from verses 19 & 20, they turn the glory of the incorruptible God into images of
corruptlble things (basically idolatry in any form). They served the creation rather than the creator.

The most convincing evidence is the life and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Who is also the Word in the flesh. All of these things about Him were recorded as eye witness accounts preserved til today even. Eye witness accounts have always had more clout than heresay. You have 4 books (the Gospels) written by different eye witnesses of Jesus doing signs and miracles, teaching good moral teachings, but also introducing the idea that He is in fact the invisible God's only Son. Part of the Godhead. He can predict future events, further signs. But the thing about Jesus is that he turned the legalistic Jews' world upside down when He announced, in so many words and experiences, that mercy and love and forgiveness is more important that following the letter of the Law. He knew no one could follow the Law to a tee.

If you can't follow the Law to a tee, the sentence is death. Not because God is angry and says YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, OR YOU WILL BE STONED... It's because God knows, like we do know, adultery is harmful emotionally which iduces toxins in the body, blood becomes tainted with death that can't be overcome. Back in the Old Testament these people were stoned because God was building a nation (Israel) in order to be a light to the Gentile nations.

But David committed adultery. Why wasn't he stoned? Because he had faith that a better way than sacrifice for sin thru animals, and he knew God is merciful, longs to be gracious to us, longs to forgive us. Sure if David was not repentant of his adultery, they could have stoned him.

God always chooses mercy over sacrifice. So Jesus wasn't only declaring his deity and pushing love and mercy, like no "king" had before, but he declared he was the Truth the Way and the Life. Then you have the predicted betrayal, arrest, and crucifixion, and then the predicted resurrection and ascension into the third Heaven.

Now, this is where my credentials don't seem enough to grant way thru this pass you're mentioning - what about geographical places where Jesus isn't preached? In my opinion, because meanings of names like Christ Jesus (messiah, God with us) are so important in the Jewish culture, my prayer and belief is that, after reading the passage out of Romans, people don't have to know the exact history and evidence as I implied earlier of Jesus. But they have to be in a faithful journey toward the meaning of the name "Jesus Christ" (God is with us, he is a Messiah). Most cultures believe in an invisible God. That's God in His Trinity Godhead. Invisible, graceful, .. Some, not all, believe in a Father like figure. Christians do, for Christ himself declared his Father and He are one. But other religions settle on a "father" who is not merciful, believes in works righteousness (this is a big one), and supports killing, etc..

The Holy Spirit's job is to channel that tension into a faith that there is a better Savior than who they are accustomed to. If God sees a heart like that, he will make a way for them to hear about Jesus Christ. Thru visions, dreams, other people, and me and now you.

I need to stop, my hands are cramping up but I hope this answered some questions.

-doug

One should remember that Christianity is not about religion and doing "right" kind of things, but eternal life. If one is IN Christ they are saved, have life, and will go to heaven for eternity; and if only a religious person they will be lost for eternity and cast away to eternal condemnation. That is the plain truth of the issue. One should not put salvation off to a "more convenient day", as the king, Agrippa said to Paul. Look up always!

- 1 Watchman

You've been given some great answers but I wanted to add the idea that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell is somewhat incorrect.

Luke 18 18-19

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

Jesus lived without sin so he was in fact good, but the point he was trying to make was that nobody is good when compared to the father. When Jesus said that even looking lustfully at a woman is the same as Adultery, he knew no man could attain that level of perfection. His was trying to illustrate the level of justice that would be needed by the Father for you to be considered good.

This is why it is so ridiculous for one man to judge another.

Its also the reason you must accept Jesus Christ as your savior, in order for his blood sacrifice to cover you.

So basically we all deserve hell. There are those who will avoid it by the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and those who will not. Our concept of "Good" is meaningless.

vincent14 said:

Hi,

I’m wondering if any Christians out there can help me with some research I’m doing for a play I’m writing. First of all I should say I’m not a Christian but an agnostic. The play I’m working on deals with attitudes to death between Christians and non-believers and is not an attack on Christianity nor does it belittle the Religion in anyway. I would like to ask some questions in the hope that I can gain further understanding into the attitudes and beliefs of Christians. Any questions or replies I post I hope are not taken as argumentative or judgemental in anyway as they don’t intend to be.

First of all I’d like to know what some people’s attitude is to hell, what they think hell is like, who goes to hell?

I was brought up Catholic as a child and was naturally terrified of hell but aspects of it baffled me. For instance I found it hard to be comfortable with the notion that God would send a good man or woman to hell simply because they weren’t Christian. If someone is brought up a Muslim and told that this is the correct faith then how is it their fault and how would that be deserving of eternal damnation?
Is it not a cruel God who would send them to hell for listening to every other human being around them telling them that Islam or Buddhism or even atheism is the right path? I’d like to get some opinions on this and discuss it. I know not all Christians believe that you go to hell for having a different faith but I also know that many do.

The other question I have regarding hell is let’s say for example there is a mother who is a Christian and leads a good life and serves God but on the other hand her son leads a life full of sin. The assumption would be that the mother would go to Heaven and the son would go to hell. But naturally the mother would still love her son? Does she not then suffer with the knowledge that her child is in hell? At the risk of sounding facetious would she not be wandering through Heaven wondering where her beloved son is and then be crushed to hear he is being tortured in hell? I’d love to get some insight into these scenarios for want of a better word.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to read and I look forward to any thoughts and opinions people might have.

Thanks,

Vincent

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Hello Vincent:

First of all you should understand the "Christianity" is a religion just like any other religion and religions do not "save" anyone. What does save people is their acceptance of the gift of salvation God is offering through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. The simple message of salvation (as found in John 3:16) has been complicated by man who has established the religious institutions requiring all sorts of non-Scriptural things. The Roman Catholic church is chief among these. One does not need to even know the name of Jesus to be saved. But one must make the decision to turn from his old ways ("repent") and choose to follow God. Romans 1:18-20 makes it clear that one may come to know God through His creation and will be without excuse on judgment day for not accepting His plan of salvation. When John 3:16 says "...that whosoever believes in Him...." means whosoever believes in God not Jesus as has been erroneously taught. It is Jesus sacrifice that saves us (He paid the price for our sins). And when (and if) we learn of Him and his teachings following them will cause us to grow into the person God wants us to be.

As far as Hell is concerned the Bible teaches the those who don't repent, continue to live in sin and don't accept God's free gift of salvation will be condemned to Hell. (Matt. 5:22, Matt. 18:9, Matt. 23:33, Luke 12:5, Rev.20:10, Gal 5:19-21).

There is no Scripture to support the idea that when we are in eternity we will know anything about our past or what happened to our loved ones. It will be a whole different relationship with our Heavenly Father and there will be no tears, pain, suffering or death (Rev.21:4).

Hell is described by Christ himself as a place of gnashing of teeth..

Knowledge of God.
Acts chapter 1.

You shall know me through my creation! Ignorance is of no excuse.

Someone spoke of different levels of hell. Not once is that mentioned in revelation or any other scripture for that matter.

Nor is there different levels of heaven.

edouard..