Practical degree vs. Ministry degree

imperfectchristian · Dec 3, 2010

Faulty said:
Not everyone is called to a fulltime ministry. If somebody ever told me that, I'd be inclined to ask them for chapter and verse where that assumption is laid out in scripture and then warned them about presuming upon God based on their personal assumprions alone. But then again, that's might just be me.

I love creating an environment for people to connect with. There is no better feeling when you have done something that touches peoples hearts with the love of God. I would love to pursue it as a profession (again), but I'm not sure that is what I should do. I need to be responsible to my family as well and making decisions that are financially not in our best interests (at least in the short term) concerns me...I wonder what the right motivation to have is.

JimB · Dec 3, 2010

imperfectchristian said:
This is a great point. At my current job I have been able to share a great deal with one person particularly I work with who knows very little about their Christian faith. Whereas ironically in my former ministry position, people seemed to keep me at arms distance. I agree that generally speaking, a secular degree is more beneficial in the business world. I am just conflicted because my greatest ability is in music and I would love to return to full time music ministry, but I'm not sure if that is the responsible choice.

And you bring up a good point, too. In my job as a pastor I have little opportunity to share my faith with nonbelieverschurch members, colleagues, and believers occupy almost all of my time. Of course, I can make time but I would have to sacrifice a lot of my responsibilities to do so. Sometimes it gets rather frustrating. Then, when I do have a chance to talk to a nonbeliever and they know I am a minister, their guard goes up and they go into religious mode and will not always present themselves as they really are, more as they think I expect them to be. That is also frustrating.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period.

lismore · Dec 3, 2010

JimB said:
In my job as a pastor I have little opportunity to share my faith with nonbelievers

There are a lot of unbelievers frequent some of the sub forums here, e.g the Apologetics section.

Why not try there?

bliz · Dec 3, 2010

Master's in Counseling from local University (financially more responsible, solid career)

Vs.

Bachelor's in Worship from SAGU (non usable in secular world, twice as expensive, what I love to do)

What say ye?

A BA in worship is a very small area of study and my guess is that is not a very demanding or respected major. Even a MDiv is respected by the world.

hislegacy · Dec 3, 2010

imperfectchristian said:
Well situations keep changing and I keep getting different people telling me to do different things. Where's your long suffering and patience pastor Joe?

If I was your pastor I would give you the following advice

stop going to mom, grandma and other people for advice on what you are supposed to do.

Grow a set, get with your wife and between the two of you make a decision based on God's guidence, the info you currently have and your wife's wisdom.

I guarentee you, you will not be in the same place you have been for the last 17 months.

I'm not your pastor, it that is what I would say. And have said to others.

Big Drew · Dec 3, 2010

Big Drew said:
If you can find a church that would hire a full time music minister it would be possible...most of the music ministers I know are part time, though...But, it makes me wonder if that type of degree would make it possible for someone to get a job as a Band or Choir Director in a high school, and then they could also be involved in a church music ministry as well?

Oh yeah...I know a handful that are full time...the ones I know are in larger churches, 500+, with enough funds to have full staff...one of my cousins was full time at a church in WV for a while...then he moved to Nashville, and he's part time there...but, his hopes are to get into the CCM industry...he has the talent.

When I was the music minister at my old church it was completely volunteer...but we only had about 75 members...

There are definitely opportunities for full time music ministers but they don't seem to be as common as full time pastors or associate pastors.

JimB · Dec 3, 2010

lismore said:
There are a lot of unbelievers frequent some of the sub forums here, e.g the Apologetics section.

Why not try there?

Oh, I have been there. I don’t go to that forum much anymore because I am trying to follow the advice of Prov. 26.4, “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.”If there are, as you say, unbelievers there they are playing word games with Christians. That is not witnessing as one-on-one, eye-to-eye encounters with serious-minded seekers would be. I prefer more personal relationships to anonymous online word games with mischievous debaters.

But thanks for the suggestion. I did find a “Struggles by Non-Christians" forum. I might try that.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period.

imperfectchristian · Dec 3, 2010

Balance said:
If I was your pastor I would give you the following advice

stop going to mom, grandma and other people for advice on what you are supposed to do.

Grow a set, get with your wife and between the two of you make a decision based on God's guidance, the info you currently have and your wife's wisdom.

I guarantee you, you will not be in the same place you have been for the last 17 months.

I'm not your pastor, it that is what I would say. And have said to others.

Thanks for the advice B. What is it that I should grow a pair of? :scratch:

Seriously though...its just a question for conversation on something that is on my mind. My wife doesn't care what we do. She thinks very practically about finances and friends, but leaves these decisions to me. There is nothing wrong with soliciting opinion nor is it a sign of an inability to make a decision because I ask what others think or sometimes vent whatever may be frustrating me at the moment online. I'm a lot more independent than you give me credit for.

imperfectchristian · Dec 3, 2010

bliz said:
A BA in worship is a very small area of study and my guess is that is not a very demanding or respected major. Even a MDiv is respected by the world.

This is true... the only reason really to get it, is to open doors into that avenue of ministry in the Pentecostal Charismatic world.

Scot73MMX · Dec 3, 2010

Dude you can get a degree in Christian counseling/psychology online.

Angel*Eyes · Dec 4, 2010

imperfectchristian said:
Specifically...

imperfectchristian said:
Master's in Counseling from local University (financially more responsible, solid career)

Vs.

Bachelor's in Worship from SAGU (non usable in secular world, twice as expensive, what I love to do)

Hi,
I have been in a similiar situation. I have always loved counseling, singing and playing instruments.
I was encouraged by others to not pursue music as a career but to just keep it as a hobby.

I ended up going to an elite university which was ranked among the top 5 academic universities in the nation. After I graduated, I felt stuck and unfulfilled. I had a strong sense that I had wasted time and went down the wrong path. One day, a stranger at church gave me a word that
"God says that you went off to college and did your own thing but He is going to turn you around and use you for His purpose".

My advice is to .... follow GOD and let Him lead you on His path of righteousness.

Angel*Eyes · Dec 4, 2010

Before I went off to college, an elderly woman wanted to give my family some property before she died. She wanted my family to run a christian education/learning center and to rent out several houses.
So, she was just going to pass everything on to us for free. My family ended up passing up on the offer.

Recently, I found out that the elderly woman's property is still tied up in probate court and oil was found under her property. The first check given to the estate by the oil company was $1.5 million dollars. So, I think that for the next couple of years the estate will receive a couple million dollars. :o :doh:

I could have set up a nonprofit music ministry and discipleship counseling ministry at the center and I could have easily lived off the oil rights and the rental money for the homes ( a total of probably $10,000 plus a month). I had no idea that God had such a huge unseen source of money waiting for my family.

So, do what God is calling you to do even if you don't think that you will make a lot of money. I followed the path that seemed right at the time and I missed out on a huge blessing.

Walk by faith and not by sight !!

Simon_Templar · Dec 4, 2010

I'm all for theological education etc.... but I really have to ask.. what is a bachelor of worship? isn't that kind of like a degree in prayer? or a degree in bible reading?

As for a degree in counselling... if that is a career you like, go for it. However, I would offer up one caution. Make sure that you choose a school that isn't going to descriminate against you for your Christian views. There have been a couple cases lately where university counseling/psych programs refused to graduate Christians based on their opposition to homosexuality etc.

vespasia · Dec 4, 2010

How about praying about which you should do?

I am currently juggling a secular degree and a theological degree. Its very hard work and means money has become something that does not stick around for very long. Not everyone is able to live like that and there are days I wish I had opted for the NHS routes as that would involve a job with real money rather than community outreach routes which are anything but.

Ministry [talking paid posts here] in a church is not easy- its unsociable hours, hard graft and you do get to wonder about some of His sheep ever being able to co-operate with each other. In the UK the pay is often at minimum wage level. If it goes wrong you get the blame, if it goes right you will never get any credit.

However you can equally serve Gods mission to a lost hurting world by working in a secular job; okay so there are constraints about what you can do written in policies and procedures but you can still go to that quiet place with God and pray for folk and you can still show your faith through action even if your not allowed to by word.

Go to that quite place with God and seek what God has to say.

LinkH · Dec 4, 2010

imperfectchristian said:
Specifically...
Bachelor's in Worship from SAGU (non usable in secular world, twice as expensive, what I love to do)

I keep remembering the posts I read from a retired Greek professor on a mailing list, pointing out that the Greek and Hebrew words most-often translated as 'worship' refer to prostration.

Then I imagine hours and hours of coursework on how to prostrate properly.

And I don't know what 'sagu' means except that in Indonesian it refers to a starchy food made from tree sap that some missionaries I knew said was gooey and hard to swallow. Some of the Papuans eat it with fish.

It seems to me that a lot of good musicians learned by practicing a lot and did not get a degree for it. I doubt you need a degree to be acknowledged in most churches either if you have talent and certain gifts or spiritual characteristics.

A masters in counseling? I don't know that much about the market for this, but I'd imagine the dollar value of the degree so to speak would be higher.

Keep in mind I have a family,

That is a major consideration. I'm in grad school studying business. From time to time, I think it would be so much more interesting to study theology or the study of Bible scholarship, but I may do so formally some day to satisfy my interests. I can still read the Bible without a degree in it.

Pray and seek the Lord about it. If you don't hear anything, make a decision and tell the Lord the reasons why you are making it and give Him a chance to disagree. Ask Him to stop you if it isn't a good decision.

Don't let not having a degree in something keep you from ministering to God's people.

Link

Yitzchak · Dec 4, 2010

imperfectchristian said:
Some people have told me I would be slapping God in the face if I didn't use the gifts He gave me to their full potential. I'm not sure how to feel about it.

How seriously you take those constructive criticisms really depends upon who those people are. When you said in an ealrier post that your wife thinks that you are supposed to pursue the ministry choice , That made me think that you should listen to your wife.

First of all, if you fail , you fail together. It is better to try and fail with the support of your wife versus a path that is agaisnt what she feels she can fully support.

Second, if your wife is anything like mine , she already is at least two steps ahead of you in having intuition about which is the right choice.

With that said , you should take it one step at a time.

Practical degree vs. Ministry degree

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