Where gravity and forces come from..!

AV1611VET · Nov 16, 2010

pgp_protector said:
None of them mention atheist, just fools.

Like I said, she just might be hinting.

Rilke's Granddaughter · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
-- Except for that last one she cited, I think she just might be hinting that you're an atheist!

-- I could be wrong, though.

I'm not hinting. The bible makes it clear that dad should be considered a fool. It's his holy book after all.

Gracchus · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Like I said, she just might be hinting.

Well, you claim you are not a Homo sapiens, a "wise man"! And what do we call someone who isn't wise? Or is it the man part you disclaim?

Nabobalis · Nov 16, 2010

dad said:
Source? Where was it that you explained in detail why a weak force exists? Or a strong one? Where was it you detailed exactly what causes them and how?

QED and QCD explain the source of the weak and strong forces.

The problem you are having here is that your questions are wrong.

It is like me asking, why does god exist? Your answer would be he is just there, fundamental, you do not have a reason for a god to exist and the same goes for these forces.

Forget mediating a force, what causes it, not regulates it!? Your whole trip is physical only based, and assuming that it explains all things.

Mass causes it, via the warping of space-time.

So they don't know. OK.

No, no one knows and no one will claim anything without the evidence to back it up *cough*

Look, our laws didn't restrain Jesus. They don't restrain angels. So they do not apply to the spiritual. The spiritual is know to exist. So we know that our laws have limits. Imagining what the past or future was like is speculation, either way. Not something modern science can prove. Yet the spiritual, and stark differences in the physical in the past are the record we have.

That is not evidence; you have not shown any of that. Let alone why stars of all things would be spiritual.

[FONT=&quot]*sigh* I need more medicine.[/FONT]

JustMeSee · Nov 16, 2010

Even if humans never learn every detail of how these forces originated and operate, it does not mean that God (term used loosely) is micromanaging these details in the universe. He (used loosely) may have set these forces in motion, and then left them to operate on their own.

I have trouble understanding why anyone would want people to abandon the pursuit of knowledge in the areas of science, and simply turn to the Bible for all of the answers. In my opinion, The Bible was not intended to be a science textbook.

JustMeSee · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
That's pretty close -- some think they are the habitats of angels.

Some think that angels are not physical forms. Some think that angels are all around us. Some think that angels are in heaven (a spiritual place).

JustMeSee · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Mom would never let us kids play in the deep end of the pool until we could swim.

Likewise, mother nature won't let her kids play in the deep end of the knowledge pool until they can swim.

Yet, people like Mr. "Science Can Take a Hike!" don't want humans to learn to swim. They want us to float with the basic knowledge of Goddidit (so there is no reason to learn the details).

Delphiki · Nov 16, 2010

Oh, come on! How should we define fundamental then? 'Anything science doesn't understand'?!

No. As I said in previous posts that you ignored:

What you're asking for is akin to asking "What kinds of coins would I use to give change for a penny?"

A penny is the most fundamental unit of U.S. currency -- in other words, the most basic. A penny is a penny and that's it. You want to know how much currency makes up a penny -- it's one penny.

Gravity is one of the four fundamental forces. What makes gravity? What is it made of? Gravity. Fundamental. Nothing more than a characteristic of mass. There is nothing more officially known about it. It is a fundamental and cannot currently be broken down into any other components.

Oh come on. Don't sling dirt on the most tested and tried and proven amazing bestselling book of all time, just to cover for the glaring inadequacies of physical only science!

Tested and tried? That's hilarious. If it were tested, then it would be science -- provided the tests passed.
Physical only science? So science is supposed to test and measure make-believe? Isn't that what religion is for?

dud said:
What anyone, including you did not do here in this thread is explain what the fundamental forces are!

*sigh*
Gravity, weak force, strong force, and electromagnetic force. Those are the fundamental forces. Fundamental forces are they. They are the fundamental forces.

Are you going to say nobody's explained it again?

You say you can break these forces down into components, then they are no longer considered fundamental. If you say they are the power of God, then for that to be considered science, you have to show your evidence -- otherwise, it's just religious blather.

Now if we were to discover that gravity was made up of some kind of combination of other forces (yes, even like god-juice or something), then those forces would then be considered fundamental.

Again -- where's this evidence that these fundamental forces exhibited different laws than they do now?

Also, I should remind you that you wouldn't be able to even ask the question in the OP if it wasn't for science in the first place. I'm sure Newton, Einstein, and Kepler would say "You're welcome" for even being aware there is a gravity, or any other fundamental force.

JustMeSee · Nov 16, 2010

dad said:
Yeah yeah...so name something you see that is evidence that the distant universe is bound with time as we are...?

Says...who?? Some say that it likely involves knowing the outcome (in some cases) before it happens, what they consider time travel. By the way can you point us to one of these little substances that are 'grainy' and small? Or is that all theory?

Nonsense. In other words you have no clue. OK. I don't think this is a place to merely tell stories. Support is needed for so called science claims. You will not be able to support that, in case somewhere in the back of your mind, you thought you, or someone else could.

Utter unsupportable foolishness. Prove it.

Smart, and nice too.

So you claim things you do not wanyt to have to support. OK. I don't care if you measure something as a wave or a particle, or whatever. Just don't make stuff up.

Were Jack and Jill witnesses here??

You probably are serious. Wow. Talking about what happened long ago as if you had some idea. That is all a story. Loosely based on present state laws. Weak indeed.

Presto. And to think some people admitted not knowing this. Good thing you showed up. Was it Mickey Mouse with a magic wand by the way?

Says...who!! Hilarious. Time is space? Is it cookies too? How about gravity, is it time too? Who gets to declare all this stuff?

So it is all foam. OK. Strawberry flavored?

Let's look at that.

"In physics and cosmology, the anthropic principle is the philosophical argument that observations of the physical Universe must be compatible with the conscious life that observes it."

Anthropic principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What a scream. That all you got??

No? Says who? Like you'd know. Man will observe the universe that is not fine tuned to physical only laws. Man may have seen different laws in the far past. Try to stick to what you know. Don't be embarrassed how little it may be.

All in the belly button lint of superman??

shortened for sanity sake..

You come across as being a very arrogant individual. The previous poster tried to answer your questions, and you proceeded to mock what he wrote. Do you know enough about the scientific positions on these subjects to argue?

Even if you don't believe findings from scientific research to be reliable or true, it is not nice to wave people's positions away in this way. People on this forum should give you the consideration of trying to understand your position. You should extend the same courtesy.

Spirit Compass · Nov 16, 2010

Nathan Poe said:
If tomorrow Christians were to substitute "God" with "Iggy the Magic Elf," would the validity of their theory change in the slightest?

Is Iggy the nickname for one of the Lanondek Sons of Nebadon?

JustMeSee · Nov 16, 2010

Lillen said:
We can have knowledge, spiritual knowledge. For instance to prove that there is life after death - a seed doesn't sprout unless it dies. This is knowledge, but not science.

A seed does not sprout unless it dies.

I don't believe this to be true. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't seeds dormant?

If you cook a seed at high temperatures, I am guessing that it would then be dead and not be able to grow into a plant.

AV1611VET · Nov 16, 2010

JustMeSee said:
Some think that angels are not physical forms.

Would you be in physical form, if you lived on the sun?

JustMeSee said:
Some think that angels are all around us.

As do I.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

JustMeSee said:
Some think that angels are in heaven (a spiritual place).

Scripture recognizes three heavens.

our atmosphere
outer space
Heaven proper

AV1611VET · Nov 16, 2010

JustMeSee said:
Yet, people like Mr. "Science Can Take a Hike!" don't want humans to learn to swim.

Link, please?

Science, to me, is a holy calling; and telling me that I don't want humans to learn is like telling me that I don't want missionaries to go to their respective fields.

Scientists, to me, are missionaries.

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

I find it interesting that their garb of choice is the white coat.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

You have no idea how highly I esteem scientists.

JustMeSee said:
They want us to float with the basic knowledge of Goddidit (so there is no reason to learn the details).

You have me pegged so wrong, it's laughable.

You've been listening to the wrong crowd.

JustMeSee · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Link, please?

Science, to me, is a holy calling; and telling me that I don't want humans to learn is like telling me that I don't want missionaries to go to their respective fields.

Scientists, to me, are missionaries.

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

I find it interesting that their garb of choice is the white coat.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

You have no idea how highly I esteem scientists.

You have me pegged so wrong, it's laughable.

You've been listening to the wrong crowd.

I read far more than I write on P&LS. My opinion of your lack of esteem towards science comes from your own writings. Thalomide, Pluto, and Challenger explosion references are all examples of your repertoire of how science is crappy.

The moment scientific evidence threatens your narrow vision of scripture, it can take a hike, right?

Okay, I am ready for the point that you have millions of posts more than me.

pgp_protector · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Like I said, she just might be hinting.

No, you're the one reading that in and hinting that.

Delphiki · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
our atmosphere

outer space

Heaven proper

Where's outer space in the bible? I know there's the ocean on top of the sky. It's supposed to be made of the same stuff our actual ocean is at any rate, since it was one thing that was split in half by the sky.

Genesis 1
6 And God said, Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water. 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault sky. And there was evening, and there was morningthe second day

Delphiki · Nov 16, 2010

So, angels live on the sun. At least we know where to look for evidence that they exist. Yay!

Darn, no angels there. Maybe they are on the other side or something.

AV1611VET · Nov 16, 2010

Delphiki said:
Where's outer space in the bible?

The same place it is outside the Bible -- starting at 62 miles up from sea level.

Delphiki said:
I know there's the ocean on top of the sky.

No you don't.

That ocean is no longer there, is it?

What did the Bible say happened to it?

Delphiki said:
It's supposed to be made of the same stuff our actual ocean is at any rate, since it was one thing that was split in half by the sky.

And why wouldn't it be 'made of the same stuff' -- it is a layer of ocean water, sheared off and sent into outer space (second heaven).

AV1611VET · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Delphiki said:
So, angels live on the sun. At least we know where to look for evidence that they exist. Yay!

Darn, no angels there. Maybe they are on the other side or something.

Your reply is an excellent example of what I mean when I say you guys' sarcasm sets up a mental block that prevents you from understanding anything.

Did I not post a verse from Hebrews that says you can be entertaining an angel and not know it?

And you come back with, "I don't see one on the sun."

If you can't tell if they're right in front of you, what makes you expect to see them 93,000,000 miles away -- (besides sarcasm, that is)?

Delphiki · Nov 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
The same place it is outside the Bible -- starting at 62 miles up from sea level.

I can't find that in the bible either.

No you don't.

That ocean is no longer there, is it?

What did the Bible say happened to it?

Oh, that's right. The windows opened and made the great flood.

And why wouldn't it be 'made of the same stuff' -- it is a layer of ocean water, sheared off and sent into outer space (second heaven).

I can't find this in the bible either. Also can't find evidence for it. So this doesn't fit in either science OR the bible.

So the ocean was too big at first, so God sheared it with the sky? Why not make the ocean the size he wanted to begin with if you're just going to discard the rest? He couldn't put the sky on top of the big ocean he already made? Good thing the earth is flat, otherwise the ocean on top of the sky would be a hollow sphere.. Oh wait! Now I see where Hovind get's his ice canopy idea.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Well wait a minute.. That means the stars are in the sky, not in outer space. I mean, if this is before the upper ocean was cast off, and they were placed "in the vault", then they are in our atmosphere! Same with the sun and the moon! Boy, these Darwinists don't know anything, right? I bet they think the sun is like, 1 AU from earth or something retarded like that. Morons!

But I still don't get how angels live in heaven, which is not space (which starts at 62 miles above sea level), which is where the sun is , except the sun is actually in our atmosphere, according to the bible. but not you, who believes every word of the bible.

Maybe you should draw a crude diagram of the ocean/atmosphere/ocean/space/heaven layering with all their denizens and residents so a dumb ol' Darwin-worshiper like me can understand.

^_^

You're cracking me up. This is almost as crazy as dad's "Gravity was different back then but I can't prove it in any way whatsoever" hypothesis.

Where gravity and forces come from..!

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