Where is the unity under the trinity god?

lared · Jan 7, 2003

Why can't the trinity god unite its people? They are divided and out of harmony with regards to doctrines, their politics, racial issues, and many times even kill each other.

Cannot this trinity god produce a people that are united?

On the other hand, the true God Jehovah is uniting millions of people from all around the world and from myriads of different backgrounds. They are united doctrinally, are no part of this world, and do not fight and kill one another during governmental squabbles. This God, Jehovah, is producing what was prophesied at Micah 4:1-4:

(Micah 4:1-4) And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream. 2 And many nations will certainly go and say: "Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths." For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 3 And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. 4 And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it].

Ben johnson · Jan 8, 2003

Hmmmm---Moslems are "monotheistic", that is "believing God is ONE" (rejecting Jesus as anything more than a PROPHET, or the Holy Spirit as a separate person). Guess you're right, Moslems certainly don't fight very much. They subscribe to "Gihad" which means "peaceful co-existence"...

Mormons are "monotheistic", and the incidence of domestic violence and abuse is NON-EXISTENT in their communities...

Jehovah's Witnesses? Haven't heard about THEIR domestic tranquility, but I'm SURE it surpasses Protestants and Catholics combined...

I guess I should apologize to you, Lared, for being sarcastic---thing is, we (Protestants and Catholics) are constrained to believe our Bible---and Jesus is very clearly presented as God.[/b]

I think all our PROBLEMS are consequential from our basic fallen nature. We are IMPERFECT---righteousness IS a goal, but so often we fall short.

I guess that's why salvation had to be by GRACE, didn't it???

Blackhawk · Jan 8, 2003

Originally posted by lared
Why can't the trinity god unite its people? They are divided and out of harmony with regards to doctrines, their politics, racial issues, and many times even kill each other.

Cannot this trinity god produce a people that are united?

[it].

I think Ben answered your question very well.  Your argument can be turned around against the nontrinitarian believer just as much as it can the Trinitarian believer.  Since this is true do you believe that the God of the Bible is false or maybe that you need to rethink what you believe about Micah 4? 

RevKidd · Jan 8, 2003

Why can't the trinity god unite its people? They are divided and out of harmony with regards to doctrines, their politics, racial issues, and many times even kill each other.

God, can do whatever he wishes to do. 

Cannot this trinity god produce a people that are united?

Sure HE can...... And He will. 

lared · Jan 8, 2003

Nothing was mentioned about Moslems or Mormons.

I am curious as to why....this so called trinity god.....who is claimed to be the true god....and is all powerful.....cannot in its wisdom and power....bring about a people that are united in their worship.

Rather the people who worship this trinity god are at odds with one another.

I don't know much about Moslems or Mormons except for the fact that they are part of the world, just as the people of the trinity god are. Thus the fighting, bickering, etc. amongst each other. Their god may be monotheistic, but they do not worship the true God, Jehovah. At least I have never heard them advocate the worship of a god with the name Jehovah.

But rather then discussing them.....since there seems such a defense on the part of the trinity god in this area of Christian Forums......I would like to know where are this god's people? Who are they? Are they anyone who simply says I believe in the trinity....but may have images in their worship? Or are they, those that believe in the trinity but preach predestination? Or are they, those that believe in the trinity but are training in the various armed services around the world?

Please elaborate.

Blackhawk · Jan 8, 2003

Originally posted by lared

I am curious as to why....this so called trinity god.....who is claimed to be the true god....and is all powerful.....cannot in its wisdom and power....bring about a people that are united in their worship.

Rather the people who worship this trinity god are at odds with one another.

Why did you totally ignore that the nonTrinitarians are equally if not more at odds with one another?  Does this simple fact kill your argument so you will just ignore it? 

lared · Jan 9, 2003

The one true God Jehovah has a people that are united.

In this area of Christian Forums, there is a great defense made that the god of the Bible is a trinity. If one is so proud of their god.....let them tell us of his or its people.

If you would like to start a thread on the unity of people under singular gods....go right ahead.

My question is for those that are proud of their trinity god.

I realize that there are other trinities worshiped in the world, for example in India. I also realize that there are many that worship a nontrinitarian god.

My question is directed to those that worship the trinity god. They should be proud of him or it and those that worship him or it.

Thus,.....who are these people? Why can't this Bible trinity god unite his people?

Shouldn't be that hard to explain without trying to turn tables.

For example....if I asked you...why did you vote for Bush.....don't try to answer with .....why did you vote for Gore?........Simply answer the question, unless there is no answer......then simply admit it.

Blackhawk · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by lared
The one true God Jehovah has a people that are united.

Oh and I guess they all go to your church which is the true church right.  Everyone else is not worshipping at the church that God established. 

In this area of Christian Forums, there is a great defense made that the god of the Bible is a trinity. If one is so proud of their god.....let them tell us of his or its people.

If you would like to start a thread on the unity of people under singular gods....go right ahead.

My question is for those that are proud of their trinity god.

I realize that there are other trinities worshiped in the world, for example in India. I also realize that there are many that worship a nontrinitarian god.

My question is directed to those that worship the trinity god. They should be proud of him or it and those that worship him or it.

Thus,.....who are these people? Why can't this Bible trinity god unite his people?

Shouldn't be that hard to explain without trying to turn tables.

For example....if I asked you...why did you vote for Bush.....don't try to answer with .....why did you vote for Gore?........Simply answer the question, unless there is no answer......then simply admit it. [/B]

What I am trying top show is that neither side is united 100% using your definition of how they should be united.  So I am arguing against your points that God will force or make all His people be united while on this earth.  At least in the way that you have stated. Orthodox Christians are united in the essentials but disagree over the nonessentials. 

But I do have another question.  What is the real point of this thread?  Why don't you jsut say what you are trying to prove instead of the way you are doing it here.  It is obvious that this thread is another sad attempt to discredit the Trinity.  Why do you not jsut say that?

lared · Jan 9, 2003

It is obvious that the trinity god of christendom either lacks wisdom or power to unite a people.

From all the great attention given to this god, I would think one would come to his defense.

Where are his witnesses? Who are they?

Blackhawk · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by lared
It is obvious that the trinity god of christendom either lacks wisdom or power to unite a people.

From all the great attention given to this god, I would think one would come to his defense.

Where are his witnesses? Who are they?

RevKidd · Jan 9, 2003

It is obvious that the trinity god of christendom either lacks wisdom or power to unite a people.

You have no clue, do you....  Who is this god of yours that you talk about... This "jehova"?

From all the great attention given to this god, I would think one would come to his defense.

Obviously you don't view all the hundreds of other threads and posts here do you....?

Where are his witnesses? Who are they?

Your looking at one....

layne · Jan 9, 2003

Jehovah is the translation of Yahweh. The same God as your "God the Father". When you see LORD in your bible, that's what they translated God's unpronouncable name of "YHWH" that appeared in the Hebrew scriptures to. And that was translated to something we can say: Yahweh, then further translated to Jehovah.
I thought it was common knowledge of what God's name is! It's even in an Indiana Jones movie!

Blackhawk · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by layne
Jehovah is the translation of Yahweh. The same God as your "God the Father". When you see LORD in your bible, that's what they translated God's unpronouncable name of "YHWH" that appeared in the Hebrew scriptures to. And that was translated to something we can say: Yahweh, then further translated to Jehovah.
I thought it was common knowledge of what God's name is! It's even in an Indiana Jones movie!

Actually Jehovah is a mistranslation while yahweh is the correct one.  Some of the Hebrew letters look very similar and it got scholars confused.  But I think what Leviathan is saying is who is this God of lared's.  I do not think he is confused about the word jehovah.  however I could be wrong.

layne · Jan 9, 2003

Well, if he knows what Jehovah means, then he'll know it's the same person in his bible listed as LORD

. Regardless of whether it is a mistranslation or not. There isn't any difference about the trinitarian and unitarian beliefs on who Yahweh and God the Father are. The main difference is basically who Christ is. Jehovah is God, who Jesus prayed to and who sent Jesus to earth, who created all living things, who created Jesus (in my opinion), and the angels, etc. Or if you believe in the trinity, it's God in the form of Father. Your "God the son" has a name, which is Jesus, and "God the Father" has a name which is Jehovah or Yahweh depending on the bible.

lared · Jan 9, 2003

Leviathan,

In your last post, you reminded me of Pharoah in ancient Egypt when he said to Moses.......'Who is Jehovah....?' Notice Exodus 5:1,2:

(Exodus 5:1-2) And afterward Moses and Aaron went in and proceeded to say to Phar'aoh: "This is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said, 'Send my people away that they may celebrate a festival to me in the wilderness.'" 2 But Phar'aoh said: "Who is Jehovah, so that I should obey his voice to send Israel away? I do not know Jehovah at all and, what is more, I am not going to send Israel away."

Jehovah is the common modern English pronunciation of the one true Almighty God. The one who has united a people earthwide in order to declare the good news of the kingdom.

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

The trinity god cannot have the good news preached because his worshipers are all so divided that they would be preaching different messages left and right. That proves the trinity god is inadequate.

The one true God whose name is Jehovah is all powerful and all wise and is able to unite people in truth and righteousness.

Lared

layne · Jan 9, 2003

That is so true Lared. The picture is so much bigger than what people chose to see.

Blackhawk · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by layne
Well, if he knows what Jehovah means, then he'll know it's the same person in his bible listed as LORD .

You totally missed my point.  My point was that most likely Leviathan was saying that the god that Lared was describing was not a God he knew.  I think he knows who jehovah is just not Lared skewed version of him. 

Regardless of whether it is a mistranslation or not. There isn't any difference about the trinitarian and unitarian beliefs on who Yahweh and God the Father are. The main difference is basically who Christ is. Jehovah is God, who Jesus prayed to and who sent Jesus to earth, who created all living things, who created Jesus (in my opinion), and the angels, etc. Or if you believe in the trinity, it's God in the form of Father. Your "God the son" has a name, which is Jesus, and "God the Father" has a name which is Jehovah or Yahweh depending on the bible. [/B]

well first it is Yahweh but since Jehovah was used for so long it is okay. But no one created Jesus since He is God.  But I think it is not really correct to say that there is no differrence in the father since the trinitarians FAther has a different nature than the nonTrinitarians. 

OldShepherd · Jan 10, 2003

Originally posted by lared It is obvious that the trinity god of christendom either lacks wisdom or power to unite a people.

From all the great attention given to this god, I would think one would come to his defense.

Where are his witnesses? Who are they?

[dd]Why can't the Unitarian god unite its people? They are divided and out of harmony with regards to doctrines, their politics, racial issues, and many times even kill each other, e.g. JW, LDS, UPCI, Christadelphian, etc..

[dd]Cannot this Unitarian god produce a people that are united?

[dd]On the other hand, the true God יהוה is uniting millions of people from all around the world and from myriads of different backgrounds. They are united doctrinally, are no part of this world, and do not fight and kill one another during governmental squabbles. This God, יהוה is producing what was prophesied at Micah 4:1-4:

[dd]If you can't can't back up your own doctrines with certain proofs, then don't require those proofs of others.

Autumn · Jan 10, 2003

Originally posted by Blackhawk
well first it is Yahweh but since Jehovah was used for so long it is okay. But no one created Jesus since He is God.  But I think it is not really correct to say that there is no differrence in the father since the trinitarians FAther has a different nature than the nonTrinitarians. 

No.  I do not believe that there are any differences in the nature of the trinitarians Father and YHWH.  He is the same.  It has been His plan, as is seen in the Old Testament, to bring salvation to all who cannot attain salvation through the law and to bring glory to His Son.  Even in Genesis 3:15 YHWH speaks of this.

And I will put enmity
        Between you and the woman,
        And between your seed and her Seed;
        He shall bruise your head,
        And you shall bruise His heel.

John 17:5

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Abraham knew Jesus, Isaac knew Jesus, Jacob (Israel) knew Jesus, David knew Jesus....

Colossians 1:15

 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God...

When they saw God, they saw His Son.  They are One God. 

Why do Christians hold so firmly to any doctrine?  Why do they let that separate them?

Jesus clearly expressed His longing for unity, and it is clearly not His will. 

John 17:9-11 (Jesus speaking)

"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You.Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

1 John 3: 5-6

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Christians live in Him and love one another.  They do not bring dissension.

 

lared · Jan 10, 2003

Old Shepherd,

The one true God, Jehovah, has produced a people that are united. They are his witnesses. They are united doctrinally, are no part of this world, and do not wound or kill each other in times of war. There are some 6 and a half million of them living in some 235 lands and they are united in declaring the good news of the kingdom.

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Jehovah is Almighty and all wise and is capable of doing this.

Now as far as the trinity god.......is he capable of doing this? If so, who are his people?

And when will his people begin to unitedly preach the good news of the kingdom?

Where is the unity under the trinity god?

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