What are you politically?

Originally posted by lared
Havoc,

I did vote. I voted for Christ Jesus at my baptism.
And I am politically involved. I encourage others to look to God's Kingdom as the supreme government and only solution to mankinds' ills.
At the same time, I help others to lead a better life by implementing God's laws, commandments, and principles in their lives.
It is obvious to millions around the earth, that something is fundamentally wrong with this world and that from every aspect, conditions are deteriorating.
No doubt, prior to the flood, there was great apathy, (that there would never be a flood, at least in their lifetime).....but the increased crime and violence and moral decay in those days should have been the handwriting on the wall.
Here are a couple of scriptures to ponder over:

(Ecclesiastes 8:9) All this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, [during] the time that man has dominated man to his injury.

(Psalm 146:3) Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.

Lared

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Your bible verses are interesting but hardly relevant to me.

If you choose to live your entire life according to nothing more than your opinion of what you believe your God may have said in a book you believe is Gods word then fill your boots. The rest of us have a world to live in that includes diverse beliefs and opinions and we'd like to be able to make it work in some fashion. Theocracies have never been a very good form of government. Even Christians can't agree on what it is God wants. Democracy isn't perfect but it's the best we've got. If you choose not to exercise your franchise that's your choice. Personally I prefer to have a say in what decisions are made for me and my family. 

Just out of curiosity... do you pay taxes?
 

Havoc,
I live in this world as well. But by following the laws, commandments, and principles found in the Bible, I alleviate quite a few problems for myself and my family. We live a very productive and peaceful life. We also live in harmony with millions of others around the world who also live by the laws of God's kingdom government and do not put their trust in nobles or rather government officials as a previous post brought out.

Lared

PS-Oh yes, by the way, I do pay my full share of income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, and whatever taxes there are (gas,hotel,automobile, etc). And that is because at Romans 13:7 we are told:

(Romans 13:7) Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear; to him who [calls for] honor, such honor.

Just as one may visit France or Brazil and be required to pay sales taxes and yet does not participate in their various man-made political ventures.

So do you follow ALL the laws, commandments, and principles found in the bible? Or do you pick and choose?

BTW, from what I've seen of the Christian community, it is anything but harmonious. Or do you only consider those Christian who believe exactly the same way you do?

"Well, that's what perplexes me so much about Outspoken's one-note criticism of me. Everyone's an individual and no one is anything 100%"

yup, because most of the time you group all people with a certain view point into a group and then dub them with loaded language titles, which is, stereotyping so you can dismiss their point of view.

"So do you follow ALL the laws, commandments, and principles found in the bible? Or do you pick and choose?"

I'm not sure the legalistic approach is what he was driving at havoc

Since I'm Australian, I don't know what these political ideas are but my political views exist of paying the worker of these banks and big profit making companies twice as much and paying the shareholders half as much. I would make the rich pay even more tax, 100 times the amount they already pay and I would move shareholders out of the equation and give the shares to the workers.

This will both give better production levels and better pays so now all the moms can go home if they like and take care of things on that front and that will open up more jobs for the nabour who has a husband and wife out of work while there next door nabour has both husband and wife working just to make ends meet.

Vote for me, I would change everything for the better; I would take (literally) from the rich and give to the poor while making everything run better while bringing in more incomes for the average family.

Who wants to be a share holder of the very company you work for, VOTE FOR ME and I will do this in 3 yrs.

Havoc,
Yes, I try my best to follow all the laws, commandments, and principles pertaining to Christians. I do not pick and choose.

And I agree with you concerning christendom. During WWII Lutherans and Catholics in Germany killed Lutherans and Catholics from the USA, etc, etc.

True Christians, on the other hand, are known for the love they have amongst themselves. Thus they are no part of this world and do not involve themselves politically or in the military. For that would disunite them.
Lared

Cancer,

I am sorry but I overlooked your post and questions.
The laws that you cited were written for the Israelites. I am not an Israelite but a Christian.
Just as God told Noah to build an ark. I am not Noah and thus do not need to build an ark.
Today, around the world in some 235 lands, there are some 6 million individuals that are voluntarilly following God's laws as pertaining to Christians as found in the Bible. These laws do not need to be enforced upon them. They want to follow them.....even if it brings negative repercussions.

And it is not up to us or man to abolish government. Notice again what God will do as found at Daniel 2:44:

(Daniel 2:44) "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

This kingdom government is located in heaven, just as Jesus said that his kingdom is no part of this world.

It will soon be up to God to abolish mankinds' governments as they cannot and will never be able to bring about true peace and security to this earth.

Lared

So you aren't "following the laws, commandments, and principles found in the Bible," as you said, just the ones "pertaining to Christians". As far as picking and choosing, which ones do you pick and choose as being pertaining to Christians? The bible doesn't appear to be very clear on which is which.

Havoc,
All of them that pertain to Christians.
It is clear once one has made a study of them.
When I visit Mexico on vacation, I may not be aware of the laws. I need to study them. Then they become quite clear.
If you have any specific questions, I will be happy to answer.
Lared

That dosn't answer the question, Lared.

Which of the laws and commandments in the bible pertain to Christians and which do not? And what method do you use to determine this? There are many conflicting interpretations among Christians about which of the OT laws are still in effect.

Originally posted by Outspoken
"Well, that's what perplexes me so much about Outspoken's one-note criticism of me. Everyone's an individual and no one is anything 100%"

yup, because most of the time you group all people with a certain view point into a group and then dub them with loaded language titles, which is, stereotyping so you can dismiss their point of view.

Click to expand...

So, basically, I've been called a Spin doctor, by the Queen Bee Pirate Queen Spin Doctor here. 

Originally posted by Havoc
So do you follow ALL the laws, commandments, and principles found in the bible? Or do you pick and choose?

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Of course he does (pick and choose)and so does everybody else.  Liberal Christians readily admit it.  Self-described Conservative Christians claim to not do so but actually do.  but if you question them on it they hem and haw and mumble, 'well, that doesn't really apply...'

BTW, from what I've seen of the Christian community, it is anything but harmonious. Or do you only consider those Christian who believe exactly the same way you do?

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A favorite pastime of some is to look for ways in which they can accuse other self-identified Christians as 'not a Christian'.

"So, basically, I've been called a Spin doctor, by the Queen Bee Pirate Queen Spin Doctor here. "

Not really, I don't stereotype in every post, I usually don't at all.

Originally posted by lared
Cancer,

I am sorry but I overlooked your post and questions.
The laws that you cited were written for the Israelites. I am not an Israelite but a Christian.
Just as God told Noah to build an ark. I am not Noah and thus do not need to build an ark.
Today, around the world in some 235 lands, there are some 6 million individuals that are voluntarilly following God's laws as pertaining to Christians as found in the Bible. These laws do not need to be enforced upon them. They want to follow them.....even if it brings negative repercussions.

And it is not up to us or man to abolish government. Notice again what God will do as found at Daniel 2:44:

(Daniel 2:44) "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

This kingdom government is located in heaven, just as Jesus said that his kingdom is no part of this world.

It will soon be up to God to abolish mankinds' governments as they cannot and will never be able to bring about true peace and security to this earth.

Lared

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Thanks for clearing that up. I suppose I respectfully disagree--I personally care very much about the fate of this world and the people that inhabit it and believe that good political theory is fundamental to a healthy society--but understand that maybe political involvement isn't for everyone. As long as you aren't looking to re-establish the old testament law, your position is fine with me.

-jon

Havoc,
One such command or law for Christians is found at Matthew 5:43,44:

(Matthew 5:43-44) "YOU heard that it was said, 'You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU;

This is an example that my fellow Christians and I follow, though christendom does not.

The people of the churches fight, wound, and kill their enemies.
Hope this helps,
Lared

Mixing politics and religion started the breakdown of the church from the beginning. The two things should not be mixed I believe. Why would you want to force a system of beliefs onto a resistant population? This creates people against a government and then indirectly against a religion. This is the major cause of the United States bad name just as it was to ancient Rome. "Forgive them Father for they no not what they do."

there's no "anarchist" choice, so I didn't vote.

Originally posted by lared
Havoc,
One such command or law for Christians is found at Matthew 5:43,44:

(Matthew 5:43-44) "YOU heard that it was said, 'You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU;

This is an example that my fellow Christians and I follow, though christendom does not.

The people of the churches fight, wound, and kill their enemies.
Hope this helps,
Lared

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What would help is a straight answer to my question, unless you don't have one.

This thread has inspired me to start a new thread/poll. It will be up in a moment.