Two Witnesses - A Full Interpretation

1whirlwind · Sep 21, 2010

Zadok7000 said:
Exactly!

Rev. 18:24 - And in her was found the blood of prophets

Where is the blood of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, etc.? They are killed daily in the great city as their prophecy, His Word, is twisted, cast aside for deception. Who is it that spills their blood? Jerusalem, the spiritual Jerusalem...people, for they won't heed the voices of the prophets and it is Jerusalem, His children, that His prophets are sent to.

Jeremiah 35:15 I have sent also unto you ALL My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto Me.

The blood of the prophets is found in Jerusalem. The bodies of the witnesses is found in the streets of the great city Babylon.

.

visionary · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Where is the blood of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, etc.? They are killed daily in the great city as their prophecy, His Word, is twisted, cast aside for deception. Who is it that spills their blood? Jerusalem, the spiritual Jerusalem...people, for they won't heed the voices of the prophets and it is Jerusalem, His children, that His prophets are sent to.

Jeremiah 35:15 I have sent also unto you ALL My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto Me.

The blood of the prophets is found in Jerusalem. The bodies of the witnesses is found in the streets of the great city Babylon.

.

got it.. I believe you have nailed the location.. doesn't mean that is who is control of the location will be when the prophecy is being fulfilled will be babylon or the harlot.. time will tell.. when the temple is built.,

NightHawkeye · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
The blood of the prophets is found in Jerusalem. The bodies of the witnesses is found in the streets of the great city Babylon.

Literal or figurative?

Zadok7000 · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
The blood of the prophets is found in Jerusalem. The bodies of the witnesses is found in the streets of the great city Babylon.

As we are told, they the same place.

The Lord was crucified and is returning to Jerusalem, so too will Satan as the False Messiah.

1whirlwind · Sep 21, 2010

NightHawkeye said:
Literal or figurative?

Figurative. We won't see literal bodies lying in the streets of the great city nor is literal blood spilled in literal Jerusalem, nor will there be a literal temple. It is all to be understood spiritually. Paul writes....

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The events of the past, the literal historic events, are our examples and are now to be seen as happening spiritually, figuratively, to us..in the last days. The first events were literal/natural but afterward....

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

I'll never forget the first time my spiritual eyes were opened to see. I can't tell you how shaken I was....that is the earthquake, the great shaking He speaks of. It is the awakening of His children when He brings bone upon dry bones so we "hear the word of the Lord,"[Ez.37] really see and hear! That first understanding was....

Mark 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

That took me to....

Isaiah 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Now I see what trees are, what the field and mountains and hills are. I see spiritually what the great city and the temple are. I sure don't understand all that's written but I'm still amazed, and shaken, as He opens my eyes wider each day.

.

1whirlwind · Sep 21, 2010

Zadok7000 said:
As we are told, they the same place.
The Lord was crucified and is returning to Jerusalem, so too will Satan as the False Messiah.

But they aren't "the same place." We're told He was crucified in the great city. That isn't Jerusalem. Jerusalem is never referred to as the great city except one time....

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

That was an incorrect translation and "that great city" is NOT in the text and should only be read..."shewed me the holy Jerusalem."

Many believe Jerusalem is the great city because of the verse we're discussing for they see the letter only. They see Christ being crucified in Jerusalem but that isn't what is written. We're told He was crucified in the great city...the same place the many "two" witnesses are killed. He was literally crucified but we are spiritually killed. He took the stripes.

.

NightHawkeye · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Figurative. We won't see literal bodies lying in the streets of the great city nor is literal blood spilled in literal Jerusalem, nor will there be a literal temple. It is all to be understood spiritually.

Which would be in rough agreement with the following sentiment from: The Seven Parallel Sections of the Book of Revelation

"The current Babylonian system is why people are currently blinded to spiritual truth and worship money, commerce and various satanic ideologies: Darwinism, Marxism, Pantheism (modern 'environmentalism' is clearly pantheistic), and all the false religions. Babylon says that people can freely be wealthy and prosperous at the expense of others and that these people can have a religion of their choice to appease their souls; Babylon has masked the truth about God and given people a religion of their minds; Babylon truly offers a self-earned justification, bedecked in deceptive luxury, moreover, it may even be observed in modern evangelicalism."

The problem is where to draw the line between figurative and literal. Do you agree that the following would be literal:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Zadok7000 · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
But they aren't "the same place." We're told He was crucified in the great city.

No matter how you want to spin it, our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem.
Jesus called Jerusalem "the city of the great King" in Matt. 5:35.

I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east

Fireinfolding · Sep 21, 2010

Sorta like this in respect to the teo Jerusalems too

As Moses said

Duet 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

"Moses wrote of me"

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Moses and Elijah (which give witness to the "sufferings of" Christ)

Luke 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

In represenative covenantally

Gal 4:9 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Whereas...

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Psalm 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

"let your light shine' (hers is actually his)

Psalm 50:2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.

Same things threaded throughout, though so fun to link up

1whirlwind · Sep 21, 2010

NightHawkeye said:
Which would be in rough agreement with the following sentiment from: The Seven Parallel Sections of the Book of Revelation

"The current Babylonian system is why people are currently blinded to spiritual truth and worship money, commerce and various satanic ideologies: Darwinism, Marxism, Pantheism (modern 'environmentalism' is clearly pantheistic), and all the false religions. Babylon says that people can freely be wealthy and prosperous at the expense of others and that these people can have a religion of their choice to appease their souls; Babylon has masked the truth about God and given people a religion of their minds; Babylon truly offers a self-earned justification, bedecked in deceptive luxury, moreover, it may even be observed in modern evangelicalism."

That is a perfect description of the great harlot. You hear her in churches from the mouths of practicing, elected by the congregations, homosexual leaders, you see her on television as she cries, tears rolling down her face as she pleads for your money, you see her as she revs up her congregation to laugh, jump around, fall down with the swoosh of Benny Hinn's hand. :doh:

The problem is where to draw the line between figurative and literal. Do you agree that the following would be literal:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Several posts back you commented (I'm paraphrasing as I'm too lazy to look it up ^_^

) that you reserve the right to change your mind. Well, I do here as I answer your question.

I see the earthquake presently as not literal for mankind is earth, dust of the ground. I see it as God shaking man in that "same hour" (the hour of temptation...not a literal hour) and the 7,000 as being whatever number God decides are to be slain. Whatever number won't give glory to God, won't be shaken to their senses. I see them as either fallen angels or tares.

I again say...I reserve the right to change my mind as I haven't spent time in study on this but that is what I see now.

.

NightHawkeye · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Several posts back you commented (I'm paraphrasing as I'm too lazy to look it up ) that you reserve the right to change your mind. Well, I do here as I answer your question.

Fair enough. We're all "works in progress ... "

I wasn't trying to pin you down in an argument, Whirlwind. I know you interpret Revelation more figuratively than I do and just kinda wondered how far that extended.

I lean far more toward literal interpretation now unless there's a strong case to be made for symbolic/figurative. People have had 2000 years to refine fanciful figurative interpretations, so I kinda figure it's worth putting in effort to assess the validity of those interpretations. A number of fanciful interpretations have been highly refined over the years and it's necessary to discard those interpretations which don't withstand scrutiny. A good story by itself doesn't equate with truth.

What really brought me to that conclusion was the question of whether or not Chernobyl fulfilled the third trumpet prophecy. I dug around on that quite a bit, but the initial answers I kept seeing never "rang true". I had to dig back through multiple "original language" sources to get just the truth about whether the word Chernobyl even equates with Wormwood, much less whether it fulfills the third trumpet prophecy. One might think the language translation could be easily answered, but there are powerfully strong forces of deception at work which fight "tooth and nail" against that. Interestingly, secular websites are the worst in that regard. One might think logic would be important to people who do not believe in God. Who knew ... It was an eye-opener.

Anyway, bottom line for me is that God put concrete markers in Revelation for a reason.

1whirlwind · Sep 21, 2010

Zadok7000 said:
No matter how you want to spin it, our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem.
Jesus called Jerusalem "the city of the great King" in Matt. 5:35.

And Jerusalem IS the city of the great King. She is His holy city, not the great city Babylon.

I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.

Click to expand...

And He is...is He jealous and protective of the great city? Or does He tell us:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

The great city is not Jerusalem.

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Click to expand...

Jerusalem is us...His children, not a geographical location. There is mourning within us, "in Jerusalem" because we are the two witnesses. We are clothed in figurative "sackcloth," [Rev.11:3] which is mourning clothes.

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east

What is the mount of Olives? A Biblical mountain is a nation....

Psalm 52:8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.

Jeremiah 11:16-17 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult He hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

The mount of Olives is...a nation of olive trees, both wild and natural, Israel and Gentile...people.

Then we have His feet that stand in that day upon the mountain. Who are they? Who are His eyes, His hands, His feet...who make up the body of Christ?

.

1whirlwind · Sep 21, 2010

NightHawkeye said:
Fair enough. We're all "works in progress ... "

I wasn't trying to pin you down in an argument, Whirlwind. I know you interpret Revelation more figuratively than I do and just kinda wondered how far that extended.

I lean far more toward literal interpretation now unless there's a strong case to be made for symbolic/figurative. People have had 2000 years to refine fanciful figurative interpretations, so I kinda figure it's worth putting in effort to assess the validity of those interpretations. A number of fanciful interpretations have been highly refined over the years and it's necessary to discard those interpretations which don't withstand scrutiny. A good story by itself doesn't equate with truth.

What really brought me to that conclusion was the question of whether or not Chernobyl fulfilled the third trumpet prophecy. I dug around on that quite a bit, but the initial answers I kept seeing never "rang true". I had to dig back through multiple "original language" sources to get just the truth about whether the word Chernobyl even equates with Wormwood, much less whether it fulfills the third trumpet prophecy. One might think the language translation could be easily answered, but there are powerfully strong forces of deception at work which fight "tooth and nail" against that. Interestingly, secular websites are the worst in that regard. One might think logic would be important to people who do not believe in God. Who knew ... It was an eye-opener.

Anyway, bottom line for me is that God put concrete markers in Revelation for a reason.

There are "powerfully strong forces" all around us. I understand what you're saying about the "secular websites." Not long ago I was on a forum that supposedly debated Christianity. I offered answers, written in the Word, that explained many of the conundrums but rather than see...they prefered to laugh, sneer, berate any belief...even with written answers. So, I was banned...one of several times and never because of anger or a bad attitude but because they didn't want to hear what is written. Powerful strong forces killing me in the great city!

Ephesians 6:12 (666) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

.

NightHawkeye · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
There are "powerfully strong forces" all around us. I understand what you're saying about the "secular websites." Not long ago I was on a forum that supposedly debated Christianity. I offered answers, written in the Word, that explained many of the conundrums but rather than see...they prefered to laugh, sneer, berate any belief...even with written answers. So, I was banned...one of several times and never because of anger or a bad attitude but because they didn't want to hear what is written.

It just goes with the territory when you're striving for TRUTH. If it's any consolation, Whirlwind, I've been through it at "Christian" sites as well. It's more painful than on secular sites, especially when you're well within both the letter and the spirit of their rules. Probably not good to dwell on it though.

zeke37 · Sep 21, 2010

1whirlwind said:
That is a perfect description of the great harlot. You hear her in churches from the mouths of practicing, elected by the congregations, homosexual leaders, you see her on television as she cries, tears rolling down her face as she pleads for your money, you see her as she revs up her congregation to laugh, jump around, fall down with the swoosh of Benny Hinn's hand.

Several posts back you commented (I'm paraphrasing as I'm too lazy to look it up ) that you reserve the right to change your mind. Well, I do here as I answer your question.

I see the earthquake presently as not literal for mankind is earth, dust of the ground. I see it as God shaking man in that "same hour" (the hour of temptation...not a literal hour) and the 7,000 as being whatever number God decides are to be slain. Whatever number won't give glory to God, won't be shaken to their senses. I see them as either fallen angels or tares.

I again say...I reserve the right to change my mind as I haven't spent time in study on this but that is what I see now.

.

i see the 7000 as being the fallen angels

Son of Israel · Sep 21, 2010

Those who attempted to destroy Jesus, we know them as Pharisees. They are the dragon and serpent.

(Mat 12:14) Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

But later, Jesus calls them...

(Rev 12:4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This Pharisee dragon later makes war against the children of this Bride, the Lambs wife,

(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These children are the Children of the Covenant that God made to Abraham, the Children of the "SEED" (singular)

(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Paul is explaining that it is in this Singular SEED that Abraham's Covenant is fulfilled to the Galations and everyone who are born of this SEED (Jesus) are also the seed of the woman of course, Jesus' wife.

We are these "Stars of Heaven"

(Gen 26:4) And I will make thy seed (SINGULAR, WHICH IS JESUS) to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Now interestingly, the tail of the dragon that tried to destroy Jesus, cast down some of the stars of Heaven.

What is the tail??

(Isa 9:15) The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

The non-believing Pharisees, Jews, who teach lies against Christ and His Children, are the tail of the dragon. They are the liars.

(Mat 3:7) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
(Mat 3:8) Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
(Mat 3:9) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(Tit 1:14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Jerusalem beneath, that place over in the middle east, is in for a real burning in final vengeance as God has promised. Anyone connected with that place on any level is in for a rude awakening.

(Rev 18:4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Son of Israel · Sep 22, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Good morning Son of Israel

Your post is.....

The two witnesses and the two prophets aren't the same.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The two prophets are Moses and Elijah, symbolic of law and prophecy. The two that were shown on the mount of Transfiguration. The Word, the law and the prophets, all three stood together as they do today....Jesus, Moses and Elijah. That truth, the Word, torments those that dwell on earth.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee." If we are called and chosen then we are sent...as His disciples, as His prophets, as His apostles, as His witnesses. To whom are we sent? He instructed His disciples....

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He sends us with His Word and He is the Word that is sent....

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

What do we often meet when we offer His Word to the lost sheep, to the city of Jerusalem, for the city is symbolic of His children? We are stoned by the residents, we are killed (banned on forums, ostracized from churches, laughed at, etc...we are figuratively killed by Jerusalem). Notice that being put out of synagogues, (churches, groups, forums where we discuss our Father) is being "killeth."

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Jerusalem isn't the harlot for she isn't the great city. And....it didn't all come to pass in 70AD.

We are among the "two witnesses" Son of Israel. We are called to witness for Him.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be His witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Thanks for your reply whirlwind. You have everything right except saying that Jerusalem beneath isn't the harlot, or in saying that it didn't come to pass in AD 70, but I give you a silver star

Jerusalem/Israel (mystery babylon) has always been the harlot. Check out my posts where I provide the O.T. background for God's O.T. harlot wife. I've gone in depth on it and with your understanding of things I think you'll see right away. Here's a few scriptures of dozens...

(Jer 3:6) The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
(Jer 3:7) And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
(Jer 3:8) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

(Eze 23:17) And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

Anyways, thanks for answering

1whirlwind · Sep 22, 2010

Son of Israel said:
Thanks for your reply whirlwind. You have everything right except saying that Jerusalem beneath isn't the harlot, or in saying that it didn't come to pass in AD 70, but I give you a silver star

Good morning :wave:

To my mind, the 70AD event was an example, a type, a shadow, the natural event which preceeds the spiritual event. First is the natural and then, "afterward that which is spiritual."

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The literal city of Jerusalem was occupied by strangers/Gentiles and her residents were taught of our Father by false prophets, tares, etc. that had taken over the hierarchy of religion....JUST AS IT IS NOW! We are the spiritual Jerusalem and we are being taught His Word by false prophets and, as it was then it is now, for our government is being ruled by strangers...those with no thought for our Father except how to banish Him from our minds.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The literal Jerusalem was ransacked...the spiritual Jerusalem, us, is now being ransacked by the four hidden dynasties....Politics, Finance, Education and Religion. But, as Zadok quoted in a previous post...He is jealous for Jerusalem. He sends His prophets and apostles (today) to Jerusalem and they speak/teach His Word. It is His Word that opens eyes and ears...bringing His "chaste virgin" to Him.

Zechariah 1:14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.

11 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Jerusalem/Israel (mystery babylon) has always been the harlot. Check out my posts where I provide the O.T. background for God's O.T. harlot wife. I've gone in depth on it and with your understanding of things I think you'll see right away. Here's a few scriptures of dozens...

(Jer 3:6) The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
(Jer 3:7) And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
(Jer 3:8) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

(Eze 23:17) And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

Anyways, thanks for answering

To me, a key word in those verses is "played." Israel, both the house of Judah and the house of Israel, "PLAYED the harlot," but they aren't The harlot. It is Babylon that is The harlot and the adultery she commits is idolatry...enticing God's children to jump into her bed so we can be defiled and polluted....led away from our Father, our Husband, our Saviour.

.

1whirlwind · Sep 22, 2010

Son of Israel said:
Those who attempted to destroy Jesus, we know them as Pharisees. They are the dragon and serpent.

(Mat 12:14) Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

But later, Jesus calls them...

(Rev 12:4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This Pharisee dragon later makes war against the children of this Bride, the Lambs wife,

(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These children are the Children of the Covenant that God made to Abraham, the Children of the "SEED" (singular)

(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Paul is explaining that it is in this Singular SEED that Abraham's Covenant is fulfilled to the Galations and everyone who are born of this SEED (Jesus) are also the seed of the woman of course, Jesus' wife.

We are these "Stars of Heaven"

(Gen 26:4) And I will make thy seed (SINGULAR, WHICH IS JESUS) to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Now interestingly, the tail of the dragon that tried to destroy Jesus, cast down some of the stars of Heaven.

What is the tail??

(Isa 9:15) The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

The non-believing Pharisees, Jews, who teach lies against Christ and His Children, are the tail of the dragon. They are the liars.

(Mat 3:7) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
(Mat 3:8) Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
(Mat 3:9) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 23:31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33Yeserpents,yegeneration of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: andsomeof them ye shall kill and crucify; andsomeof them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecutethemfrom city to city:
Mat 23:35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(Tit 1:14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Jerusalem beneath, that place over in the middle east, is in for a real burning in final vengeance as God has promised. Anyone connected with that place on any level is in for a rude awakening.

(Rev 18:4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I agree. The tail of the dragon are the liars. We see them on television, standing at pulpits, writing books, re-writing Bible translations. All smiling and oh-so-holy. The generation of vipers...seed of the serpent....tares.

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1whirlwind · Sep 22, 2010

NightHawkeye said:
It just goes with the territory when you're striving for TRUTH. If it's any consolation, Whirlwind, I've been through it at "Christian" sites as well. It's more painful than on secular sites, especially when you're well within both the letter and the spirit of their rules. Probably not good to dwell on it though.

I mention it more as encouragement for others....we should not be discouraged or offended......

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Mark 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

John 16:1-3 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.

We should expect this and we should NOT be offended although many shall be.....

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

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