$$$ Prosperity... how much is enough?

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Debbie

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I believe the original post here is about cold hard cash.
This is being constantly promulgated by leaders of the word of faith movement. While I agree that God doesn't want us to be destittute, nor in debt, I do believe I see planting of seeds of coveting here.
I know people in the word of faith movement & suddenly they are no longer content with anything they have:home, car, electronics, carpeting, etc.
God may want us to be rich with cash, but if I am a preacher, & that is my main message, then someone is going to think I am a false prophet. Look at Jerimiah 23. They were false prophets speaking "peace & prosperity" constantly.
 
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JohnR7

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>>This is being constantly promulgated by leaders of the word of faith movement.

They know that God blesses us so we can help others and so we can be a blessing to others. But they do not always follow their own teaching. To often you hear about how much they spend on themselves and their own comfort, with no regard for others.
 
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Mandy

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Money is useful in helping to spread the gospel, but so are a number of other things, like our time, our witness, etc. In the early church, people were selling all they had and giving the money to support it, (no I am not saying we should sell everthing we have), not striving to make money to support it. I don't believe God wants us to strive and focus on gaining wealth. We should be content with what we have and give to God accordingly with a cheerful heart, because God loves a cheerful giver.
 
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Blackhawk

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zamar,

I will look for a good source but you can use me if you want. I have heard Kenneth Copeland and other Name it claim it teachers say that God does not want you to be poor instead He wants you rich. If you want that new car then pray for it and you will get it. But I know my word means nothing so I will look for other sources.

Oh wait I can recommend that you take a look at the writings of Hank Hennegraf and The Chrtistian Resource institute. He wrote a book that is called "Christianity in Crisis" that is really good and also "Counterfeit revival" is also very good. Both speak about the faith movement. I however do not have either with me so I can't quote directly from them. I also have heard Frederick Price on his radio program say that God can't use someone that is in a wheelchair. That really made me sick to my stomach.

blackhaw6
 
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Debbie

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Zamar, I heard Creflo Dollar say this repeatedly myself, and once Kenneth Copeland was sitting beside him agreeing.
3JOhn 1:2 says God wants us to be healthy & properous & I agree. I just have a problem with preachers who don't try to win souls to CHrist. They spend all their time talking to believers only, telling them God wants them to be "rich in abundance". Listen, they are talking about cash & nice stuff in abundance.
If I do to church on Sunday & my pastor preaches that sermon once every 6 months, fine. But something is wrong with a preacher who only talks about this kind of stuff, not being concerned with planting seeds of coveting(sin) into CHristians. Tape TBN & play it back.
 
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Blackhawk

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Originally posted by zamar
Sorry Hank Hannegraf is not a good source.

Yes I have heard Kenneth Copeland make statements like "God wants you rich" Can you provide scripture that contradicts that statement?
Will someone explain 3 John 2 to me please?

Z

Why not? He has shown to me to be very credible and I have heard with my own ears what they said also. If you want something from scripture what about the rich young ruler. He definitely shows that the love of possesions of this world is wrong. You can use them and enjoy them but are real riches are in heaven where "moth and rust can't destroy.

Mat 6:19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Mat 6:20 "But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;
Mat 6:21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Mat 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life ?"
Mat 19:17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good ? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the
commandments."
Mat 19:18 Then he said to Him, "Which ones ?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU
SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Mat 19:19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Mat 19:20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking ?"
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
Mat 19:23 And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."


Also maybe the parable of the rich man and lazarus in Luk 16.

Now these do not state that God does not want you to be rich but I think that they do show that being rich in this world is not what God is about.

blackhaw 6
 
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Blackhawk

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3 Jo 1:2 Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.

I quickly read 2 commentaries on 3 john 1:2 both Matthew Henry's and the JF& B's commentary say that the verse is sayinng that John is wishing bodily health just like he has spiritual health. But I think that even if John meant money or material wealth that the verse would be a real shaky one to promote a certain doctrine on it. It is in the greeting to the book and it is a wish of John to Gaius. It does not say that God wants us to be rich or that we should even desire it. And taken with the rest of the Bible it would seem out of place to suggest that kind of interpretation of it.

blackhaw6
 
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Mandy

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Prosper:

2137 euodoo yoo-od-o'-o

from a compound of 2095 and 3598; to help on the road, i.e. (passively) succeed in reaching; figuratively, to succeed in business affairs:--(have a) prosper(-ous journey).

2095 eu yoo

neuter of a primary eus (good); (adverbially) well:--good, well (done).

3598 hodos hod-os'

apparently a primary word; a road; by implication, a progress (the route, act or distance); figuratively, a mode or means:--journey, (high-)way.

I don't see how one can infer from 3 John 2 that this means being rich.

TBN makes me sick. Once in a while I will come across it and all I hear is claim your healing, claim your wealth. I have witnessed that Fredrick Price twisting the Bible, the verse about storing treasure here on earth. Look at Jan, I can see where a lot of the money that comes into them goes, to her numerous plastic surgeries.
People need to hear the pure undiluted gospel of Jesus Christ, not how to get rich through faith in God.
I think the people who are weak and poor physically, but is rich in faith and completely in love with Jesus are the greatest witnesses for Him. These are the ones who are the richest of all.

God uses all of His children, rich or poor.
 
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StogusMaximus

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This is a sore topic for me. I see a lot of people who are ashamed of their wealth and success.

I am 27 I have been working full time for the last 7 years in the computer industry. I am very nicely compensated for the work that I do. I have a lot more possessions than most people my age. I have traveled and see more than most people my age. I am buying my first house, and it is a lot nicer than most people will have for their 2nd or 3rd house.

In the end none of this matters. In the end it will all be destoryed by fire and I will be judged by my Lord for my works.

However, I am not ashamed that I work very, very hard to get the things I have. I am not ashamed to have the wealth that I have. I don't appologize for it, and I am not ruled by it. My focus first thing in my day and thoughout my day is letting Jesus guide me in all my decisions. I spend my day trying to do things that are pleasing to God, and gloryfing Him.
 
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Where is the "rest of the Bible " does the Bible promote poverty? I realize that we are not seek after riches. But where does the word promote your thinking? The word Prosper in 3 John speaks of just that (being successful and to prosper)

Matthew speaks of the difficulty of the rich to enter into the kingdom because many trust in their riches but I have found and the Bible proves that seeking after the Kingdom of God, brings prosperity and health. (Due 8:18 states that God gives power to optain wealth to establish the covenant)

Debbie, I have also heard Crefelo Dollar and Kenneth Copeland speak of God wanting his children to be blessed. What is wrong with that? Have you looked and the definition of "Blessed"?

Both of these men have lead Thousands of people to Christ. They are both first and foremost soulwinners. Copeland's entire ministry is based upon soul winning. He underwrote a series of meatings in Lagos Nigeria in 2000 which won a documented 6 million people to the Lord. 6 million in one week. You cannot judge people that you do not know.

Z
 
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Blackhawk

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Stogus,

Don't think I mean that we should be ashammed of wealth. Just that material wealth is not what God is primarily concerned about. So I do not think that if your well off financially that you should feel bad just use it to God's glory and not concentrate on the possesions but instead concentrate on the giver of the possesions. That is where I think teachers such as Kenneth Copeland go wrong. They focus so much on material things. Ones health and wealth. When Jesus focussed on the spiritual. How is you heart is a question Jesus would ask not how rich can you get. That is where the rich young ruler got it wrong too.

blackhaw6
 
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Mandy

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I don't think anyone is saying that being wealthy is bad or wrong.
My point is simply that we should not be striving to obtain riches, but instead should remain focused on Jesus Christ and serving Him. There is absolutely nothing wrong with working hard, in fact I think it is wrong to not work hard at whatever we do. In everything we do we are to do as unto the Lord. God blesses us all in many different ways. Also we are to be good stewards with whatever we have been given.
 
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