Burning the Qu'ran: A Bad Idea

HisdaughterJen said:

The God of the Universe told me not to serve other gods, pgpprotector, or bow to them...and there YOU sit, telling me to LOVE them as my neighbor!

It's almost as if you think God loves the devil/allah.

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I'm sorry, as much as I would like to be equal with Jesus, I'm not, I was just quoting His words.

pgp_protector said:

I'm sorry, as much as I would like to be equal with Jesus, I'm not, I was just quoting His words.

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The devil and his little book is not my neighbor.

pgp_protector said:

I'm sorry, as much as I would like to be equal with Jesus, I'm not, I was just quoting His words.

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Indeed! But, forgetting the rest of the story ...

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

The entire social interaction is a two-way street. Forgetting that part led to WWI and WWII.

Is burning the Quran symbolically different than a rebuke?

And if it is, then what other actions, pray tell, might constitute a suitable rebuke in this instance?

I'm not sure whether Jen is an expert troll or really believes what she's saying.

NightHawkeye said:

Indeed! But, forgetting the rest of the story ...

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

The entire social interaction is a two-way street. Forgetting that part led to WWI and WWII.

Is burning the Quran symbolically different than a rebuke?

And if it is, then what other actions, pray tell, might constitute a suitable rebuke in this instance?

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Yes, this is talking about expressing a sharp disapproval or reprimand to an action, towards a brother (not neighbor) in Christ (someone who is already following Christ), not trying to antagonize them causing strife and anger towards you.

1) What does this thread have to do with Echatology? Nothing, but as you say...this was because another thread here.

2) The OP makes a commit about a child wearing a shirt. Was the shirt wrong? Is Islam of the Devil? Yes...

3) Is saying Islam of the Devil hateful? Nope...It is an expression of discernment.

3) Do we love sinners, Islamic people? Yes...

4) Is burning the book an act of love? Nope. Then I say avoid it. I suggest a way of living in the midst of pagans is the example of Paul in Acts 19. A pagan said this of Paul..."You have brought these men here, though they have neither robbed temples nor blasphemed our goddess."...We don't have to bad mouth Islam...we just need to preach and live out the Gospel. Of course, this I feel is something we can disagree on.

5) Do they burn the American flag, bibles, kill us, etc??? Yes, what can you expect of the sinners...

6) Am I a coward for saying this? How do you know if I am or am not.

This thread has to do with eschatology because Islam is anti-christ and gog!

pgp_protector said:

Yes, this is talking about expressing a sharp disapproval or reprimand to an action, towards a brother (not neighbor) in Christ (someone who is already following Christ), not trying to antagonize them causing strife and anger towards you.

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Your point is well made.

Pray tell though, as I asked before, what other actions might constitute a suitable rebuke?

NightHawkeye said:

Your point is well made.

Pray tell though, as I asked before, what other actions might constitute a suitable rebuke?

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For someone who is Not our brother, but neighbor? I don't think we're supposed to be rebuking our neighbor, but helping them to become our brother, and we do that by showing them the love of Christ in our actions and words. From their it's up to the Holy Spirit.

NightHawkeye said:

Your point is well made.

Pray tell though, as I asked before, what other actions might constitute a suitable rebuke?

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I can't see any anonymous actions constituting a rebuke. When I think of the word I think face to face honest communication.

Ah looks like I'm wrong about rebuking your neighbor, their is something about that in the Leviticus Laws that were given to the children of Israel.
Leviticus 19
(we so need the Bible tags back )

Leviticus 19:15-18
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the LORD.
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

But as Markus posted

Markus6 said:

I can't see any anonymous actions constituting a rebuke. When I think of the word I think face to face honest communication.

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random actions of burning books isn't really a rebuke as their is no corrective action, directions or dialog given.

pgp_protector said:

For someone who is Not our brother, but neighbor? I don't think we're supposed to be rebuking our neighbor, but helping them to become our brother, and we do that by showing them the love of Christ in our actions and words. From their it's up to the Holy Spirit.

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Hmm ..., and how does one become your brother?

R E S P E C T

... and have I mentioned C O M M U N I C A T I O N.

After all, what is rebuke but a form of communication?

If your neighbor builds a fence that encloses your garden would you not go tell him in specific terms that you find that unacceptable and ask him to remove it? I suppose this could also be called education; that is, letting your neighbor know that there are boundaries.

By way of another example: What did the five wise virgins tell the five foolish ones? Rather than giving of their own oil, did they not tell the foolish ones to go buy oil for themselves?

pgp_protector said:

random actions of burning books isn't really a rebuke as their is no corrective action, directions or dialog given.

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OK. If you don't like those, then what, pray tell, would constitute a suitable rebuke?

Acts6:5 said:

And what happens if militant Muslims retaliate and kill people in response. Will that ridiculous ''message'' have been worth it?
Acts6:5

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I really don't think that people are grasping the significance of this event. The Muslim 'hornet's nest' has already been stirred by GWB and the NATO war machine. What people do or don't do on 9/11/2010 will not change the trajectory of radical Islam.

What WILL change is America's and 'Christianity's' behavior towards Muslims and Islam. Anger towards what happened on 9/11/2001 has been brewing for 9 years and will be unleashed by a Christian pastor on 9/11/2010. It's Muslims in America who need to fear for their lives, not those adherents of the 'God Bless America' civil religion. People are sick and tired of living in fear of Islam and 9/11/2010 will ignite the catharsis.

NightHawkeye said:

Hmm ..., and how does one become your brother?

R E S P E C T

... and have I mentioned C O M M U N I C A T I O N.

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I would say through Christ.

NightHawkeye said:

After all, what is rebuke but a form of communication?

If your neighbor builds a fence that encloses your garden would you not go tell him in specific terms that you find that unacceptable and ask him to remove it? I suppose this could also be called education; that is, letting your neighbor know that there are boundaries.

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Yes I would talk to them, I wouldn't go and burn things that they hold sacred though.

NightHawkeye said:

By way of another example: What did the five wise virgins tell the five foolish ones? Rather than giving of their own oil, did they not tell the foolish ones to go buy oil for themselves?

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They told them to go get oil, they didn't destroy their lamps though.

Each case they informed them of the Correct action to take, they didn't go your wrong, so I'm destroying something you hold dear.

NightHawkeye said:

OK. If you don't like those, then what, pray tell, would constitute a suitable rebuke?

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I don't think we're in a position to rebuke them biblically right now.

Paxton25 said:

I really don't think that people are grasping the significance of this event. The Muslim 'hornet's nest' has already been stirred by GWB and the NATO war machine. What people do or don't do on 9/11/2010 will not change the trajectory of radical Islam.

What WILL change is America's and 'Christianity's' behavior towards Muslims and Islam. Anger towards what happened on 9/11/2001 has been brewing for 9 years and will be unleashed by a Christian pastor on 9/11/2010. It's Muslims in America who need to fear for their lives, not those adherents of the 'God Bless America' civil religion. People are sick and tired of living in fear of Islam and 9/11/2010 will ignite the catharsis.

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Ah, the great right-wing hate-machine ...

That's just silly ...

Can you provide an example of anything similar ever in American history?

pgp_protector said:

I don't think we're in a position to rebuke them biblically right now.

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Why not?

The group funding the mosque at Ground Zero is deliberately giving you the raspberry ...

NightHawkeye said:

Why not?

The group funding the mosque at Ground Zero is deliberately giving you the raspberry ...

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1) They're not my brother in Christ (yet, though we can pray for them)
2) From my understanding the Neighbors in Leviticus were actual Neighbors, so the rebuking of Neighbors in Leviticus may not apply.
3) They're not giving me the raspberry.

pgp_protector said:

1) They're not my brother in Christ (yet, though we can pray for them)
2) From my understanding the Neighbors in Leviticus were actual Neighbors, so the rebuking of Neighbors in Leviticus may not apply.

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1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Well, let me try one more time to see if I can get it right ...

In terms of the golden rule then is there no action or communication you would undertake? Is complete submission the appropriate response?

NightHawkeye said:

...snip...
Well, let me try one more time to see if I can get it right ...

In terms of the golden rule then is there no action or communication you would undertake? Is complete submission the appropriate response?

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I will keep taking the actions I'm currently taking, I try to be respectful of people when I come across them in my journey, if they need help I try to help them. I try not to do actions that will "put gas on an existing fire", and I try to keep my faith.