Petraeus: Burning Koran Puts American Lives 'in Jeopardy'

Art Vandelay said:

How does a Mosque near Ground Zero 'offend Christians'? I take this whole notion to be offensive! Christians were not the only victims of 9.11. What about the other people, the non-Christians, who died in the attacks? Shouldn't they be offended by your characterisation here?

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Anyone who wants can be as offended as they like. People seem to have forgotten that we have a right to freedom of expression, and freedom of religion. No one said anything about a right to not being offended.

I'M offended by the mosque at ground zero. And you can call me a reactionary fundy or whatever you like, thats fine. But I'm still offended by it. However, I ALSO acknowledge the people building the mosque have a RIGHT to do so, and that even though I find it deeply offensive, I have no RIGHT to stop them.

The converse is also true. Mooslems may well be offended by the burning of the koran. So what? Why does their getting offended matter more than the burners' right to freedom of expression and religion?

One or the other. Either we start stopping people doing things that others find offensive, both 9/11 victory mosque building AND koran burning, OR... all those who feel they might be offended by someone else exercising their constitutionally protected rights get to stay home that day and do something else. But you can't say that one group's sense of offence warrants curtailing another groups freedoms, while in another case, someone else's sense of offence DOES warrant such a curtailment.

So pick one. Just be consistent.

Anyone who lives in fear of retribution by Islam for burning the Koran has already willingly submitted themselves to Islam.

Choose this day whom you will serve. The God of Israel RULES!

Some of us have been saying all along that we don't live in a vacuum, and such anti-Muslim hysteria only serves to embolden the terrorists and help them with their recruiting.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

Some of us have been saying all along that we don't live in a vacuum, and such anti-Muslim hysteria only serves to embolden the terrorists and help them with their recruiting.
Ringo

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Yes, as prophecied, the division lines have been drawn. God will destroy Islam and all who adhere to it, fear it, submit to it.

Ringo84 said:

Some of us have been saying all along that we don't live in a vacuum, and such anti-Muslim hysteria only serves to embolden the terrorists and help them with their recruiting.
Ringo

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And anti Christian hysteria only serves to fuel anti-Muslim sentiment.

Who said anything about anti-Christian hysteria?
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

Who said anything about anti-Christian hysteria?
Ringo

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Anything that has the name Jesus attached to it has become despised. Even Christians on this forum are apologizing for belonging to Jesus, and are bowing in fear to the god of Islam.

Ringo84 said:

Who said anything about anti-Christian hysteria?
Ringo

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Didja read the OP? Threatening violence against Americans because of the acts of a single Christian church doesn't qualify as "anti-Christian hysteria" to you?

Didja read the OP? Threatening violence against Americans because of the acts of a single Christian church doesn't qualify as "anti-Christian hysteria" to you?

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No...it qualifies as deliberately inflaming the terrorists by being controversial.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

No...it qualifies as deliberately inflaming the terrorists by being controversial.
Ringo

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DO you FEAR Islam? Who cares if they are "deliberately inflamed"? Who cares if they get insulted? Boo hoo!

Ringo84 said:

No...it qualifies as deliberately inflaming the terrorists by being controversial.
Ringo

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Read the OP again... it sounds like you are saying the terrorists are right and reasonable to become "inflamed"... if subsequent violence from the terrorists isn't due to "anti-Christian hysteria", its, what... rational?

Read the OP again... it sounds like you are saying the terrorists are right and reasonable to become "inflamed"... if subsequent violence from the terrorists isn't due to "anti-Christian hysteria", its, what... rational?

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That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that we don't live in a vacuum - actions like burning Q'urans have consequences abroad, and we should consider the lives we're putting at risk by taking such actions.
Ringo

It's a matter of responsibility. Is Islam responsible for their murdering, lying, suicidal ways? Should we alter our actions so that they are appeased, saying "please don't kill us...we'll do anything you want"?

Ringo84 said:

That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that we don't live in a vacuum - actions like burning Q'urans have consequences abroad, and we should consider the lives we're putting at risk by taking such actions.
Ringo

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I'm sorry, I don't believe people should alter their behaviours because of threats of violence.

For example, muslims claim to hate America party because of the tolerance of homosexuals. since homosexuals being in the open helps fuel the anti US sentiment, and subsequent violence, should we therefore restrict homosexuality, since their existance inflames muslim terrorists?

I'm sorry, I don't believe people should alter their behaviours because of threats of violence.

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Normally, I don't either. In this case, however, there are other lives at risk.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

Normally, I don't either. In this case, however, there are other lives at risk.
Ringo

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There are ALWAYS other lives at risk. Be consistent. Either you don't support the idea of caving to threat of violence, or you do. But to try to say its SOMETIMES OK to cave to threats of violence is... silly.

I'm not willing to risk the lives of our troops because some fundamentalist church in Florida wants to call attention to itself by burning Q'urans.
Ringo

Art Vandelay,

Because I am able to distinguish, in my mind, between the Muslims building this Mosque and Al Qaeda. A basic distinction that many people seem to be struggling with. I am able to distinguish, in my mind, between what greater Islam as a whole says and does and what a single radical sect says and does.

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ah that debate again, no I don’t think you are as I argued from the Quran, Haddith and Islamic history.

If a Mosque near Ground Zero is offensive then a Church near any site where terrible Inquisitorial affairs were conducted is also offensive.

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Well, fair enough, perhaps it would be reasonable not to build any religious building in the vicinity, thats my view, but you seem to want the mosque.

Would the Muslims victims of 9/11 also object to the Mosque?

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First answer my question, what about those who are of other religions and of none who object to the mosque. Can you address that question first before you continue arguing in favour of Islam.

Funny story. All I can say is I hope these Koran burners have no objection to the Manhattan Islamic center.

HisdaughterJen said:

DO you FEAR Islam? Who cares if they are "deliberately inflamed"? Who cares if they get insulted? Boo hoo!

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Boo hoo indeed.

Will you be "inflamed" when Muslims around the world start burning Bibles?