Have you ever felt like the church doesn't want what you have?

Questioning Christian

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I was just wondering.

To me, it seems like the church passes over some very gifted people, especially people who are experienced and knowledgeable. I saw it happen to my dad, and I also have seen it happen to a lot of people. The subject has been on my heart lately.

I just wonder why the church leaves so many people out who are so gifted, talented, and graced by God.

It's really hard watching it.

I have seen people who study and study the Bible, who have deep insight and wisdom and revelation, who have gifts which greatly minister to people, and the church just seems to yawn at it.

The Bible says that when you come together, everyone has something to contribute. One has a tongue, one has an interpretation, one has a psalm, one has a revelation, and so on. But how come people are not allowed to share?

We are afraid of someone being out of order, more than we are afraid of quenching the Holy Spirit and silencing his gifts and grieving Him.

We would rather someone wither on the vine spiritually and their potential to be wasted and their gift to go to the dust bin, than for something "disorderly" or "unusual" to happen in the local assembly. We would rather sacrifice the future of an individual in the kingdom than we would sacrifice the momentary comfort zone of people who might be offended by the move of the Spirit of God.

Why is this? :scratch:

Why do we have to come together, sing some songs, have some announcements, listen to the same guy or woman speak EVERY Sunday, then we greet each other on the way out the door and go home, then come back next Sunday and do the same thing the same way in the same order all over again, 52 Sundays a year?

Why?

Why is it that only the pastor, or only his wife, or only one of his favorite church members can give an approved word?

Why doesn't the PASTOR have to whisper his word to the elders [and get their approval] before giving it, like everybody else does?

Why is the guest visiting minister always right in everything he or she says, and never gets corrected or challenged by the pastor, and the pastor never addresses things they said to the congregation?

Why does the service transition from worship RIGHT into the sermon or the offering, RIGHT when the people are the most sensitive and open to give and receive the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Why?

Why are pastors never reproved before the congregation if they give a word that's not from God? How come the pastor's words are ALWAYS from God, but my word or your word is suspect and needs to be judged?

Why is the church like this?

Why are the congregation unimportant to the pastor?

Why is the pastor's need to hear himself or herself talk, so much more important than the need to develop spiritual gifts and abilities of the people sitting in the seats? Why is the pastor the only person who has anything of value or worth to contribute to the meeting at the local assembly?

Why is the church like this?

Why is what the pastor says beyond question, but everybody else gets nothing BUT questioned when they say the same things?

Why?
 
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KleinerApfel

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Because the Church is a wild, free animal, and was never meant to be held captive in an institution.

Any time man takes control of her and tried to tame and label and dictate, there will be issues like this, because institutions have to be organised.

Wherever 2 or 3 meet together in the name of Jesus, His Church happens, and you find all manner of gifts begin to flourish because nobody feels it their duty to organise the life out of everyone.

Messy, dangerous, maybe...but alive, free and growing too!
 
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lismore

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I was just wondering.

Hey QC

The pastor these days seems to be paid to give the word. They usually dont do much pastoring, more teaching.

If people from the congregation can stand up and give a better word, then what is the purpose of this payment?

Therefore the people in the congregation must be kept quiet and listen to the paid staff.

Your purpose is to pay.
 
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Child of JC

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I've seen this in my church too. My old pastor tired to pick who he wanted to fill certain positions instead of picking the people God gifted in those areas. In the end, nobody did anything and most people stopped attending.
We have a new pastor now. He's gentile. I really like him, but he has not yet taken any steps to repair what the old pastor broke.
I would like to see pastors who are willing to clean the toilets. Humble servants who love their flock, instead of the current self elevation syndrome.
...did I mention I'm studying to be a Pastor (Hope my heart remains pure)
My idea of what Home Church is, looks attractive, but I have not heard God tell me to leave.
 
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JimB

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Because the Church is a wild, free animal, and was never meant to be held captive in an institution.

Any time man takes control of her and tried to tame and label and dictate, there will be issues like this, because institutions have to be organised.

Wherever 2 or 3 meet together in the name of Jesus, His Church happens, and you find all manner of gifts begin to flourish because nobody feels it their duty to organise the life out of everyone.

Messy, dangerous, maybe...but alive, free and growing too!

Thank you, L. :thumbsup: Christ loves his bride, warts an all but it seems we can only love her after we are allowed to give her a makeover. Anyone can love the “ideal” church. The challenge has always been to love the real church.

~Jim
I believe in miracles but I don’t depend on them.
 
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hislegacy

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7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:
“ When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first
descended into the lower parts of the earth?10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ


The OP makes it sound like God is a crappy gift giver.

Why do people always think they know better than the person God called to be the pastor?

Why do people think the only ministry in the church has to be the time on Sunday morning?

Why do the people who complain the loudest do and give the least to the church?

Why do people complain that things need to be done decently and in order complain about grieving the spirit at the first sign of order?

things that make a pastor go hmmm.....
 
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GrapeGirl

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Yeah. Sometimes. We are going to a church that has about 500 people, so there are lots of people with lots of different talents and gifts. It's been kinda a struggle because I am a singer. And there are lots of other people who want to be singers. So sometimes I have to step aside and let someone else sing and that can be hard if my heart isn't in right with God. If my attitude isn't right, then I tend to think that the church doesn't want what I have to offer. But after a while of praying and dying to myself, I realize that they do want what I have. They just want to give everyone else a chance too.

Sunshyne
 
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lismore

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I was just wondering.

Hey QC

Maybe you could find alternative outlets for your gifts and interests?

It's sometimes good to start up a little fellowship group and see what happens. People who like to pray, get together and pray. People who like music, get together and play some. People who like bible studies, get together and study.

Relying on the formal church to do everything is impractical.
 
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My biggest complaints are issues with control. It is not that people don't want what a particular person has, it is that many times the pastor, board, denomination want to use it as a tool to further an agenda.

We are generally taught to follow a system and hierarchy. Going to a non-denominational church does not automatically spare someone from this either...sometimes the elements of control can be worse.

There are plenty of churches that will offer to control you and manipulate you and take your money. The ones that are true treasures are those who enter in the journey with you through the sharing of life and relationship.

I like this quote...

"It is easier to find guides, someone to tell you what to do, than someone to be with you in a discerning, prayerful companionship as you work it out yourself. This is what spiritual direction is." — Eugene Peterson
 
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Tamara224

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Why is the church like this?

Why is what the pastor says beyond question, but everybody else gets nothing BUT questioned when they say the same things?

Why?


Honestly, I think it's that way because it's the easiest. It's just like the time when God had just led the Israelites out of Egypt and Moses invited the people to approach the mountain of God for themselves and the people said "no, Moses, you do it for us." The people had the opportunity to talk to God and hear from God themselves, but instead they placed a mediator in between them and God.

Also similar to the time they demanded a king.

People generally don't want to participate fully. They want to be passive observers, hearing from God second-hand instead of first-hand.
 
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Seeking Him

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Honestly, I think it's that way because it's the easiest. It's just like the time when God had just led the Israelites out of Egypt and Moses invited the people to approach the mountain of God for themselves and the people said "no, Moses, you do it for us." The people had the opportunity to talk to God and hear from God themselves, but instead they placed a mediator in between them and God.

Also similar to the time they demanded a king.

People generally don't want to participate fully. They want to be passive observers, hearing from God second-hand instead of first-hand.
I agree, especially about demanding a king. If Christians would listen to the King of Kings Himself, things would change.

Leaders don't encourage the Christian in the pew to use their spiritual gifts the way they should. What a change there would be if we all fuctioned in our God ordained gifts, and as royal priests. The hierarchy would fall.
 
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tturt

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OP - I understand what you're saying but all the blame can't rest on leadership. As little as it takes for church splits, complaining, etc., I can see why the person ultimately responsible would be hesitant - very hesitant.

Agree with the poster that said - we should be attending where the Lord wants us.

Also, for some ministeries there's a learning curve.

As far as pastors cleaning toilets or willing to, I wonder how many church members would be willing to do that along with them. But I doubt very many would turn down a speaking opportunity.

Probably the reason why there's a rush to move from the singing to the sermon for example, is because most congregations expect to out by 12:15 - 12:30 tops. We act like The Lord has to fit in our time schedule or oh, well, we'll see you again some time.
 
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nephilimiyr

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I was just wondering.

To me, it seems like the church passes over some very gifted people, especially people who are experienced and knowledgeable. I saw it happen to my dad, and I also have seen it happen to a lot of people. The subject has been on my heart lately.

I just wonder why the church leaves so many people out who are so gifted, talented, and graced by God.

It's really hard watching it.

I have seen people who study and study the Bible, who have deep insight and wisdom and revelation, who have gifts which greatly minister to people, and the church just seems to yawn at it.

The Bible says that when you come together, everyone has something to contribute. One has a tongue, one has an interpretation, one has a psalm, one has a revelation, and so on. But how come people are not allowed to share?

We are afraid of someone being out of order, more than we are afraid of quenching the Holy Spirit and silencing his gifts and grieving Him.

We would rather someone wither on the vine spiritually and their potential to be wasted and their gift to go to the dust bin, than for something "disorderly" or "unusual" to happen in the local assembly. We would rather sacrifice the future of an individual in the kingdom than we would sacrifice the momentary comfort zone of people who might be offended by the move of the Spirit of God.

Why is this? :scratch:

Why do we have to come together, sing some songs, have some announcements, listen to the same guy or woman speak EVERY Sunday, then we greet each other on the way out the door and go home, then come back next Sunday and do the same thing the same way in the same order all over again, 52 Sundays a year?

Why?

Why is it that only the pastor, or only his wife, or only one of his favorite church members can give an approved word?

Why doesn't the PASTOR have to whisper his word to the elders [and get their approval] before giving it, like everybody else does?

Why is the guest visiting minister always right in everything he or she says, and never gets corrected or challenged by the pastor, and the pastor never addresses things they said to the congregation?

Why does the service transition from worship RIGHT into the sermon or the offering, RIGHT when the people are the most sensitive and open to give and receive the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Why?

Why are pastors never reproved before the congregation if they give a word that's not from God? How come the pastor's words are ALWAYS from God, but my word or your word is suspect and needs to be judged?

Why is the church like this?

Why are the congregation unimportant to the pastor?

Why is the pastor's need to hear himself or herself talk, so much more important than the need to develop spiritual gifts and abilities of the people sitting in the seats? Why is the pastor the only person who has anything of value or worth to contribute to the meeting at the local assembly?

Why is the church like this?

Why is what the pastor says beyond question, but everybody else gets nothing BUT questioned when they say the same things?

Why?
Yah know QC, it's really hard sometimes to answer a simple question when one makes such a long OP. ;)

I can only talk about what makes me function or react. I don't at all feel comfortable talking about the whole church as we are so disfunctional as a body that I really think it's an imposible task.

Yes some christians definately show me that they don't want what I have, freedom from law, because they love the law and or their religiousness. No amount of discussion on an internet message board seems to ever change or solve anything. It actually disturbes me that people around here think that these kind of differences can be solved over the internet. LOL, yeah like so called proof means anything, it usually doesn't because real proof is hidden in scripture and it's the Holy Spirit's job to reveal the truth in that proof, not for me to prove, you to p[rove, or anyone else, it's not our job.

Now I know you asked a bunch more questions but, really QC, if your're going to ask a question in your title you really should just stick with that one question so to make is easy on us all, but then again I guess that's why you call yourself Questioning Chrisitian. ;):D
 
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nephilimiyr

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Because the Church is a wild, free animal, and was never meant to be held captive in an institution.

Any time man takes control of her and tried to tame and label and dictate, there will be issues like this, because institutions have to be organised.

Wherever 2 or 3 meet together in the name of Jesus, His Church happens, and you find all manner of gifts begin to flourish because nobody feels it their duty to organise the life out of everyone.

Messy, dangerous, maybe...but alive, free and growing too!

Yes, Yes, Yes !!!

I think you said it all right there in a nut shell TLIMB. :)
 
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nephilimiyr

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Yup. All the time. Since I'm a woman, my gifts are not appreciated.

Oh but Tamara you have a talent that is very special and unique to all of us, and we all have something special and unique in us. I'm just saying I have seen it in you so please don't sell yourself short because of a few fuddy-duddies. And I have always appreciated your special uniqueness. :)
 
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