Catholics..Would God FORCE celibacy?

MamaZ said:

Mary was not needed to be born sinless nor could she have been since she was conceived and born of adams seed. Mary was betrothed to Joseph before the angel appeared to her not to live a life of celebacy but live in union of marriage with Jospeh to beget children which is an inheritance from the Lord. Children are gifts and sex is not unholy between a married man and his wife Even in the case of Mary and Joseph

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You still haven't grasped the magnitude of Mary being destined to carry God in her womb.

winsome said:

You still haven't grasped the magnitude of Mary being destined to carry God in her womb.

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Possibly grasp it even more being a woman but that has nothing to do with the
fact that no human was sinless. This concept is so magnified in the Scriptures
that there's no way around it.
Anyhow, it's not that Mary's part in His coming isn't appreciated.
It's just that He get's ALL of the glory.
He shares it with NO other.

Among women, she is the MOST blessed.

sunlover1 said:

It's just that He get's ALL of the glory.
He shares it with NO other.

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O king, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar kingship, greatness, glory, and majesty. (Dan 5:18)

“Now, Master, you may let your servant go
in peace, according to your word,
for my eyes have seen your salvation,
which you prepared in sight of all the peoples,
a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and glory for your people Israel.” (Lk 2:29-32)


“Your glory, O Israel, lies slain upon your high places! How the mighty have fallen” (2 Sam 1:19)

“You [King Amaziah] have indeed defeated Edom, and your heart has lifted you up. Be content with your glory, and stay at home; for why should you provoke trouble so that you fall, you and Judah with you?” (2 kg 14:10)

“He has stripped my glory from me, and taken the crown from my head.” (Job 19:9)

“what are human beings that you are mindful of them,
mortals that you care for them?
Yet you have made them a little lower than God,
and crowned them with glory and honour.”
Psalm 8:4-5

winsome said:

O king, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar kingship, greatness, glory, and majesty. (Dan 5:18)

“Now, Master, you may let your servant go
in peace, according to your word,
for my eyes have seen your salvation,
which you prepared in sight of all the peoples,
a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and glory for your people Israel.” (Lk 2:29-32)


“Your glory, O Israel, lies slain upon your high places! How the mighty have fallen” (2 Sam 1:19)

“You [King Amaziah] have indeed defeated Edom, and your heart has lifted you up. Be content with your glory, and stay at home; for why should you provoke trouble so that you fall, you and Judah with you?” (2 kg 14:10)

“He has stripped my glory from me, and taken the crown from my head.” (Job 19:9)

“what are human beings that you are mindful of them,
mortals that you care for them?
Yet you have made them a little lower than God,
and crowned them with glory and honour.”
Psalm 8:4-5

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Hi winsome.
God shares HIS glory with no other.

Psalms is repeated in Hebrews though

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

sunlover1 said:

Hi winsome.
God shares HIS glory with no other.

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You said "It's just that He get's ALL of the glory".

But other get glory too.

winsome said:

You said "It's just that He get's ALL of the glory".

But other get glory too.

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You're right.
Sounds like an AWESOME thread idea too.
Glory!!

sunlover1 said:

Hi winsome.
God shares HIS glory with no other.

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You can catch that here too...

Jerm 9:23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

Dan 4:3 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

Dan 4:21 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

Isaiah 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms


Reminds me of this too somewhat

1Cr 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Dan 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

And later, his reason returned to him

Dan 4:36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

winsome said:

You still haven't grasped the magnitude of Mary being destined to carry God in her womb.

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I don't believe that some here have grasped the magnitude of carrying God by Spirit in our bodies either. Does this mean that we all have been called to celebacy?

I have one question.

Is there something evil or wrong about someone taking a vow, an oath with God, to live a celibate life?

JacktheCatholic said:

I have one question.

Is there something evil or wrong about someone taking a vow, an oath with God, to live a celibate life?

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Sorta like them new years resolutions 90% of folks cant keep? However well intended they might be?

It does say this though too

Ecc 5:5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

But Jacob vowed a vow himself, that if God would provide for him he would give a tenth to God, there were those who bound themselves with an oath to not eat anything or something like that till they got to Paul, I wonder if they starved to death or caved into the strong desire for food against themselves

JacktheCatholic said:

I have one question.

Is there something evil or wrong about someone taking a vow, an oath with God, to live a celibate life?

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No. It's wrong to make someone do it in order to serve God.

Fireinfolding said:

Sorta like them new years resolutions 90% of folks cant keep? However well intended they might be?

It does say this though too

Ecc 5:5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

But Jacob vowed a vow himself, that if God would provide for him he would give a tenth to God, there were those who bound themselves with an oath to not eat anything or something like that till they got to Paul, I wonder if they starved to death or caved into the strong desire for food against themselves

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Let your Yes be a Yes and your No be a No.

Yes, yes...

However,I am sure that Paul remained celibate til the end.

JacktheCatholic said:

I have one question.

Is there something evil or wrong about someone taking a vow, an oath with God, to live a celibate life?

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Matthew 5:33- 37

33. "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.""
34. "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35. "Nor by earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37. "But let your "Yes" be "Yes" and your "No", "No." For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

These are the verses I was getting when I read this. Take from it what you will.

Bless.

JacktheCatholic said:

Let your Yes be a Yes and your No be a No.

Yes, yes...

However,I am sure that Paul remained celibate til the end.

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Thats because his GIFT was to be UNMARRIED, Paul said its not everyones GIFT (though he wished it were). It wasnt IMPOSED upn him of man, it was GIVEN HIM of GOD, neither did Paul IMPOSE such a thing on other men thats why he said LET (do NOT FORBID marraige) those who do are setting others up to commit fornication, Paul said, to AVOID fornication (which is having sex outside of marraige) LET them marry. Whereas the fordding of marraige is called (by the apostles) a doctrine of demons. If you are not gifted of God to remain unmarried you will be setting yourself up to take a fall, Paul said let not fornication be named among you ONCE as becometh the saints. Paul so knew Jack that forbidding of marraige when not gifted of God to remain such (no matter how well intended it might be for "appearances" sake) can actually lead the servants of God into fornication because they were unable to contain themselves (being not gifted as He was) knowing this he said, it is better for them to marry then to burn.

Gotta run out for a little while

JacktheCatholic said:

I have one question.

Is there something evil or wrong about someone taking a vow, an oath with God, to live a celibate life?

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Depends on the reason.
my one question: Isn't there something evil or wrong about requiring a vow of celebacy?

Fireinfolding said:

Sorta like them new years resolutions 90% of folks cant keep? However well intended they might be?

It does say this though too

Ecc 5:5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

But Jacob vowed a vow himself, that if God would provide for him he would give a tenth to God, there were those who bound themselves with an oath to not eat anything or something like that till they got to Paul, I wonder if they starved to death or caved into the strong desire for food against themselves

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You ever seen any statistics on priests track record?

Yes, Paul was celibate. I am sure he discerned this and chose this way to serve God.

The thing is... Priests are not being forced. If they choose to be ordained in an order that wants the Priest to practice celibacy and not be married then that person has a decision to make. They go through education and a time of discernment before making a decision. But it is a decision.

Then that person takes vow of his own free will and with out any cohersion.

So, the OP is definitively answered as "No a priest is not forced into celibacy."

The only thing really left open for debate is whether you agree with these orders having a rule for celibacy and being unmarried.


Keep in mind that this is something with the RCC and not something that the RCC is asking or telling any other group to do. As a Catholic I both understand this theology and teaching as well as agree with it. So, why should any one be concerned with this when the RCC accepts this and the Christians that choose to be RCC accept it?

Rick Otto said:

You ever seen any statistics on priests track record?

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I heard, most likely because it was unfairly imposed on them.

Instead of just saying, "God hath gifted me to remain unmarried" its this "celicacy call of God" which is not what it is

"God hath called me to celibacy" (they say) well IF you are not married YE OUGHT TO BE (duh!) and no one else is called to be an UNcelibate in a unmmarried state otherwise they be FORNICATORS, I know not anyone called to be fornicators do you? So to say, "I am celibate", its like SO WHAT??? What do you want a pat on the back for not having sexual relationships while you are not married?

See what Im saying? Its that word displacement thang folks do, it weasels itself out from under "the forbidding of marraige" by calling it "a call to celibacy" . Which is WHAT they OUGHT TO BE DOING whether they are a so called priest or someone "supposedly" considered of a lower station then themselves (in whatever way they do that).

Might as well say, " I am called to not fornicate" (while I am not married) well, big deal WHO IS? I know not one