Major Contradictions among Protestants

I myself don't believe in Once Saved Always Saved. We have free well and we can turn our salvation away. Other words give it to satan. Yeah we God would forgive us again but still once saved always saved doesn't exist to me.

Now Baptism isn't a needed thing for salvation. Baptism is a way to share to those that u accepted Christ.

chestertonrules said:

Jesus actually said, thou are Cephas and upon this Cephas I will build my Church.

Click to expand...

The name written as Cephas is written once as it pertains to the gospels and its in the gospel of John rather then Mathew.

However every gospel has the name Peter written throughout, to contrast (in Mat, Mark, Luke and John) but Cephas is written of only once in the gospel of John where the interpretation is actually given in the verse "a stone".

Both the rock IN Peter and the rock that followed them was Christ, as Paul said *HE* that wrought IN Peter was the same that wrought in Him, and who else could it be but Christ, given Paul said God (even as the Father to Peter) revealed HIS SON IN me, even God said, BEHOLD **I LAY** a stone IN SION and its Christ.

Look at them as CHIPS of the ol' block, but likewise, YE ALSO are LIVELY CHIPS too


But you know its we differ as we have been down this road a kazillion times before, you got your rock and I got my rock

Hentenza said:

BTW- Do you know that the church was founded in not just the apostles (plural) but also the prophets (plural) with Jesus as the cornerstone(Eph. 2:20)? I don't see Peter's name all by himself here. Mmmm.....lol

Click to expand...

Keep saying that but even as squint points out satan cometh and steal that word away from him

HEY!! WHO was Jesus speaking to after he was Peter?

Get thee hence Satan amen?

Couldnt resist

The OTHER scripture further clarifies the apostleSSSS plural, and prophets (plural) not singular Peter to stand on, so aint got a leg to stand on there (in otherwords)

chestertonrules said:

How can these major discrepancies exist if the Holy Spirit is leading protestant Christians?


Baptism needed for salvation?

Once Saved Always Saved?

Salvation by faith alone or faith working through love?


Three central questions regarding our eternal destiny that protestants can't agree on.


How do we find the Truth?

Click to expand...

Baptism is not necessary for salvation.
We are only born again one time.
Salvation is actually by grace, through faith. Works are just proof that we have salvation, not necessary for it. Faith produces works.
We find the truth in scripture.

Standing Up said:

Barging in, I'd say that perfectly clarifies exactly what Jesus has told the Church.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Clearly not a man that some have been taught, but of Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God.

Click to expand...

Yeah with all of them withdrawing along with Peter, how is following Peter only make sense?

Now, Paul however said forthrightly GODS SON was revealed IN HIM (theres the Rock who smacked Peter upside his head, when all were dissembling in Peter) but I'd LOVE to believe Chestertonrules could belive that SAME ROCK was Christ IN Peter. But since he teaches its only Peter (not as Paul who had Christ revealed IN him) I'd much rather be built on Paul (if I had the choice and I didnt know better) And given Paul rebuked Peter, whose got the more steady rock?

Ok, Im playing wit cha, making a bit of fun of the whole thing, please no one think I really pit the apostles against one another lol

One is a religion of following the Word.

The other is a religion of following words.

Secundulus said:

One is a religion of following the Word.

Click to expand...

I'd call this Christianity, do you have another suggestion then?

Secundulus said:

The other is a religion of following words.

Click to expand...

The Word is Jesus so I guess this is people who solely follow the words of men and have nothing to do with Jesus.
Again do you have another suggestion for us?

Yeah Jesus said abide in me (the word) and my words (abide in you).

Two are sorta one in that way too

Fireinfolding said:

Keep saying that but even as squint points out satan cometh and steal that word away from him

HEY!! WHO was Jesus speaking to after he was Peter?

Get thee hence Satan amen?

Couldnt resist

The OTHER scripture further clarifies the apostleSSSS plural, and prophets (plural) not singular Peter to stand on, so aint got a leg to stand on there (in otherwords)

Click to expand...

I perceive that among the many posters here you may understand this, so I share what I have been led to see in the Hope of our Lord that the vessel of honor (that I know is in ALL MANKIND) will hear, even knowing that the vessel of dishonor (that I know is also in the flesh of all mankind) will resist and knowing FINALLY and in COMPLETE TRUST that it is GOD Who raises HIS CHILDREN to HEAR The Words of HIS SON.

After the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan (waters of the decender figuratively showing the words of satans confusions) HE was immediately led into the desert to be tempted by Satan. This action was exactly in accord with what Jesus taught in the previously cited scriptures about the entry of SATAN into the heart wherever the Word is sown. In Jesus however this 'entry' was NOT within Him in any way and HIS WORDS remain PURE WORDS OF GOD that EVERY CHILD OF GOD is SLATED TO BELIEVE either now, or in the LIFE that HE GIVES in the ages to come.

Here are The Words OF LIFE to ALL MANKIND from our LORD. These WORDS were once spoken in the DESERT WILDERNESS by The Spirit of Life but ISRAEL did not and COULD NOT HEAR because of the THEFT of SATAN of those same Words. These same Words have been spoken to THE CHURCH in the Gospels as stated here:

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


And I would say to any child of God, WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FINDING ETERNAL DEATH WORDS FOR MAN? IF you have found those SATAN has ALREADY STOLEN from you and the vessel of DIShonor is presently REIGNING in your LUMP as you do NOT believe The Words of The Son Of God.

Man SHALL LIVE BY EVERY WORD of GOD.

Do you believe this? Does any believer here BELIEVE THE WORDS OF THE SON OF GOD whom they CLAIM with their lips as LORD?

I ask God to SHOW HIS LIFE in YOU ALL who are Gods children, knowing the gale of resistance theft to HIS WORDS we ALL CARRY just as Peter showed when SATAN ENTERED AND STOLE from him. This has assuredly happened to and in US ALL.

The first overcoming of THE THEFT OF SATAN is to BELIEVE THE WORDS OF HIS SON, the WORDS OF LIFE TO MAN by EVERY WORD of GOD.

enjoy!

squint

Secundulus said:

One is a religion of following the Word.

The other is a religion of following words.

Click to expand...

Which is which?

squint said:

I perceive that among the many posters here you may understand this, so I share what I have been led to see in the Hope of our Lord that the vessel of honor (that I know is in ALL MANKIND) will hear, even knowing that the vessel of dishonor (that I know is also in the flesh of all mankind) will resist and knowing FINALLY and in COMPLETE TRUST that it is GOD Who raises HIS CHILDREN to HEAR The Words of HIS SON.

After the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan (waters of the decender figuratively showing the words of satans confusions) HE was immediately led into the desert to be tempted by Satan. This action was exactly in accord with what Jesus taught in the previously cited scriptures about the entry of SATAN into the heart wherever the Word is sown. In Jesus however this 'entry' was NOT within Him in any way and HIS WORDS remain PURE WORDS OF GOD that EVERY CHILD OF GOD is SLATED TO BELIEVE either now, or in the LIFE that HE GIVES in the ages to come.

Here are The Words OF LIFE to ALL MANKIND from our LORD. These WORDS were once spoken in the DESERT WILDERNESS by The Spirit of Life but ISRAEL did not and COULD NOT HEAR because of the THEFT of SATAN of those same Words. These same Words have been spoken to THE CHURCH in the Gospels as stated here:

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


And I would say to any child of God, WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FINDING ETERNAL DEATH WORDS FOR MAN? IF you have found those SATAN has ALREADY STOLEN from you and the vessel of DIShonor is presently REIGNING in your LUMP as you do NOT believe The Words of The Son Of God.

Man SHALL LIVE BY EVERY WORD of GOD.

Do you believe this? Does any believer here BELIEVE THE WORDS OF THE SON OF GOD whom they CLAIM with their lips as LORD?

I ask God to SHOW HIS LIFE in YOU ALL who are Gods children, knowing the gale of resistance theft to HIS WORDS we ALL CARRY just as Peter showed when SATAN ENTERED AND STOLE from him. This has assuredly happened to and in US ALL.

The first overcoming of THE THEFT OF SATAN is to BELIEVE THE WORDS OF HIS SON, the WORDS OF LIFE TO MAN by EVERY WORD of GOD.

enjoy!

squint

Click to expand...

Yes I do acknowledge THE SPIRIT led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Returning from thence in the power of the same.

In respect to THE ENTRY you speak of in respect to Christ, its when lust CONCIEVES it bringeth forth sin and sin when its finished death. Is this what you mean?

If one looks at the patern of His baptism, and even the Spirit descending upon Jesus, (figuratively for ourselves) can speak (also) to the trying of our faith, which comes. Beforehand theres nothing really to try we are all of the same stock (so to speak) or as it might be said, the world, even the spirit of the world would love you as its own, (no threat) thats before faith "comes". The apostles too speak of the trying of our faith, and (ofcourse) to consider the patience of Job (and look who was there too) right?

Theres tons on these things.

Fireinfolding said:

Yes I do acknowledge THE SPIRIT led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Returning from thence in the power of the same.

In respect to THE ENTRY you speak of in respect to Christ, its when lust CONCIEVES it bringeth forth sin and sin when its finished death. Is this what you mean?

If one looks at the patern of His baptism, and even the Spirit descending upon Jesus, (figuratively for ourselves) can speak (also) to the trying of our faith, which comes. Beforehand theres nothing really to try we are all of the same stock (so to speak) or as it might be said, the world, even the spirit of the world would love you as its own, (no threat) thats before faith "comes". The apostles too speak of the trying of our faith, and (ofcourse) to consider the patience of Job (and look who was there too) right?

Theres tons on these things.

Click to expand...

Man shall LIVE by EVERY WORD of GOD.

Matthew 13:26
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Picture PETER
Picture SATAN

squint said:

Man shall LIVE by EVERY WORD of GOD.

Matthew 13:26
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Picture PETER
Picture SATAN

Click to expand...

Trying to picture it

Fireinfolding said:

Trying to picture it

Click to expand...

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; [PICTURE in PETER] but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, [PICTURE SATAN speaking through PETER] and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Same principle.

squint said:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; [PICTURE in PETER] but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, [PICTURE SATAN speaking through PETER] and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Same principle.

Click to expand...

This may help. In the parable, the ground is heart. Nothing wrong with the seed, but the heart/ground.

Then on top of trying to sort it out we get folks who love preeminence, rather than truth (3 John), casting out brethren from the church. And now who's left to hear?

Standing Up said:

This may help. In the parable, the ground is heart. Nothing wrong with the seed, but the heart/ground.

Then on top of trying to sort it out we get folks who love preeminence, rather than truth (3 John), casting out brethren from the church. And now who's left to hear?

Click to expand...

What happened with Peter happens within ALL, particularly in believers where The Word is sown. And as such we should expect that to be a confirming sign of the activity of God and the resisting activity of Satan. This is part of the exercise of God and the travail of man in reaction with Satan.

It is quite a secure principle.

If anyone reads those Words of Jesus and says in their heart, 'this doesn't happen to me' they have already been hit with theft.

s

chestertonrules said:

I appreciate your position.

However, most Christians in the world and Catholic and there are Catholic Churches almost everywhere.

Where do you live, by the way?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't like to say where I live over the internet, except that i live in England, and happen at the moment to live in a city.
There does happen to be a Catholic church just down the road from me and in fact I was baptised in a Catholic church and went to a Catholic school. However, I don't (at least at present) accept everything that is taught within that church. (not that I necessarily accept everything that's taught in other churches either)
However, where I used to live, the nearest Catholic church closed down (though thinking about it, I was and still would be, young and fit enough to either cycle or walk to the next nearest one had I so wished, However, unless less able-bodied people had a lift available to them or could afford a taxi, they would not have been able to get to it).

squint said:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; [PICTURE in PETER] but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, [PICTURE SATAN speaking through PETER] and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Same principle.

Click to expand...

Actually much clearer squint, the word was revealed in and to Peter and shortly after he is coming up behind (or rather in the face of Christ).

Yes, much clearer as you put it and I can catch what you are trying to show the way you are seeing this.

Fireinfolding said:

Actually much clearer squint, the word was revealed in and to Peter and shortly after he is coming up behind (or rather in the face of Christ).

Yes, much clearer as you put it and I can catch what you are trying to show the way you are seeing this.

Click to expand...

When believers of any 'sect' see this as happening in themselves most of our differences will go away and our judgments will turn in the direction they were intended to turn and AWAY from each other as Gods children.

squint said:

When believers of any 'sect' see this as happening in themselves most of our differences will go away and our judgments will turn in the direction they were intended to turn and AWAY from each other as Gods children.

Click to expand...

You should start a thread on it squint, just so folks can examine these things much more closely, put them to the test so to speak. For one, it speaks of when we were in the flesh verses the spirit and elsewhere there was given paul a thorn in the flesh (messenger of Satan) but instead of being a hinderance to Paul it turned out to be his help, in the sense it kept him from exalting himself, whereas ironically ithat is the devils condemnation, so the thorn given him actually worked for Paul not against him in that respect, other things to consider as well.