Why do Roman Catholics...

Trento · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
Talk about their church all the time?

Evangelicals talk about Christ all the time. Quite a difference.

"And He (Christ) is the of the body, the church (Col.1:18), "which is His body, the Fulness of Him the that Filleth all in all (Eph. 1:23)
In the Holy Scriptures the Church is repeatedly called the Body of Christ."Who (Paul) now rejoice in my sufferings for you, ... for His Body's sake, which is the Church (Col. 1:24), the Apostle Paul writes about himself.
Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, says he, are given by Christ ". . .for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ" (Eph. 4:11-12).

The Church is the Body of Christ.

Dark_Lite · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
Thanks

You do realize I was being sarcastic right?

Marian apparitions are demonic.

And there's the magic Satan sense.

I haven't made any proclaimations that aren't true. I have studied the religion in depth. I was even once one of the Knights of Columbus.

And a lot of good it did you, apparently. You yourself have admitted that your "studies" of Catholicism begin and end with people like John MacArthur, and as one recent thread showed, he isn't honest about what Catholicism teaches either.

It is wrong and you are blinded like most cult members.

Of course. Every single person on this forum and in life that tells you that you are not objecting to Catholicism, but rather what you think is Catholicism, is blind. It couldn't possibly be that you don't know what you're talking about. Your viewpoint is extremely myopic. If many different people from many different walks of life are independently telling you that you're wrong, chances are that you are probably wrong--especially if those people are outside of the main sphere of what you're dealing with (i.e. other Protestants even telling you that you're wrong).

You know what, paul spread the gospel pretty easy, people today are spreading the gospel pretty easy. You know why? The gospel is easy! Christ died for us he rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of God today as our precious advocate. We place our faith in him and his work and we are saved period! That's the gospel.

I agree completely!

Rome is just endless in its complications and red tape. It's truely dead and isn't reaching a lost world for Christ. It is hurting people and leading them away from Christ.

Maybe in your myopic, warped worldview. Unfortunately for you, I suppose, many people come to Christ in the Catholic Church, and find true spirituality and salvation there. God leads us all where he will. I recognize the validity of Protestant churches when it comes to saving grace. . I only wish the reverse was true.

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

judechild said:
DD2008, should I talk about my Church?

How old are you? I don't want to scare a child. Please read your bible and trust in Christ instead of that organization you are wrapped up in.

judechild · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
How old are you? I don't want to scare a child. Please read your bible and trust in Christ instead of that organization you are wrapped up in.

Remember what I said in my first post? "In my experience, the Evangelical claims to know my relationship to the Father, and judges me accordingly."

And my age is none of your concern, sir.

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

Dark_Lite said:
You do realize I was being sarcastic right?

I really don't care.

And there's the magic Satan sense.

And there's the dullness of a hard heart.

And a lot of good it did you, apparently. You yourself have admitted that your "studies" of Catholicism begin and end with people like John MacArthur, and as one recent thread showed, he isn't honest about what Catholicism teaches either.

They do now...

I've probably read more Roman Catholic material than you have. I used to not trust any book without an imprimatur on it.

Of course. Every single person on this forum and in life that tells you that you are not objecting to Catholicism, but rather what you think is Catholicism, is blind. It couldn't possibly be that you don't know what you're talking about. Your viewpoint is extremely myopic. If many different people from many different walks of life are independently telling you that you're wrong, chances are that you are probably wrong--especially if those people are outside of the main sphere of what you're dealing with (i.e. other Protestants even telling you that you're wrong).

Truth be told ther are a lot of people who walk into this forum off the street who haven't even read the bible through. Honestly, I only really pay attention to those I know are legit. I know what Roman Catholicism is, thank God for that. I once was decieved into thinking like you do. Roman Catholicism is full of lies. It is like mormonism in many ways.

Maybe in your myopic, warped worldview. Unfortunately for you, I suppose, many people come to Christ in the Catholic Church, and find true spirituality and salvation there. I recognize the validity of Protestant churches when it comes to saving grace. God leads us all where he does. I only wish the reverse was true.

I think if a person is saved in the Roman Cathoilc Church it is in spite of it's teachings and people, not because of it. That institution is a mission field full of peopel who need Christ.

Dark_Lite · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
It's the same thing, those in communion with Rome.

The Orthodox will tell you they are most definitely not in communion with Rome. Same for the PNCC and other Old Catholic groups. The Orthodox think we persist in heresy and don't recognize the validity of sacraments outside their own communion. The Old Catholics broke off after Vatican I over papal infallibility.

Benedict proclaimed that protestants don't have the right to be called churches.

Yep.

The general belief is that all groups are tied to the true church of rome by their baptism and if people become aware that Rome is the true church and decide not to join it they are damned.

The Catholic Church doesn't deal in generalities. Generalities get us into messes like this one. Catholicism is a very meticulate, specific form of Christianity.

The rest have no hope of going straight to heaven, they will go through purgatory, only a devout fully sanctified member of the RCC will die and go straight up...it's terrible beliefs.

God will save whom he wills and how he wills. I don't think most of us will be going straight to heaven. It is rare that people die in a state of such perfect grace that they would go straight to heaven. You are basing this idea on nothing again.

A stupid notion that Christ is fenced in by holy orders.

Who said anything about fencing in?

He is the advocate of every man, no one needss a priest to have a relationship with him,

True.

and everyone who sits under the teaching of the apostles (the New Testament) are successors of them.

Obviously you are going with the "priesthood of all believers" thing. As I'm sure you know from your in-depth studies of Catholicism, Catholics believe in the priesthood of all believers, but also in a sacerdotal priesthood (what is commonly just called "the priesthood" and whose members are priests and bishops) for the sacraments.

Actually that's your blindnes talking.

Dark_Lite · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
I've probably read more Roman Catholic material than you have. I used to not trust any book without an imprimatur on it.

Maybe that's your problem. You swing from one epic extreme to another. That's not educationally healthy. You wind up with an extremely biased view of the thing you came from, and then when you go back your viewpoint completely flops upside down and you wind up with the exact opposite. It's kind of like how many young earth creationists simply become atheists when they realize YECism isn't true. Their faith is so tied to the validity of a literal interpretation of Genesis that it is absolutely shattered when the realization that the Earth is old finally sinks in.

Truth be told ther are a lot of people who walk into this forum off the street who haven't even read the bible through. Honestly, I only really pay attention to those I know are legit. I know what Roman Catholicism is, thank God for that. I once was decieved into thinking like you do. Roman Catholicism is full of lies. It is like mormonism in many ways.

You keep thinking that.

I think if a person is saved in the Roman Cathoilc Church it is in spite of it's teachings and people, not because of it. That institution is a mission field full of peopel who need Christ.

And that.

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

Dark_Lite said:
The Orthodox will tell you they are most definitely not in communion with Rome. Same for the PNCC and other Old Catholic groups. The Orthodox think we persist in heresy and don't recognize the validity of sacraments outside their own communion. The Old Catholics broke off after Vatican I over papal infallibility.

So, there are twenty ome odd eastern rights groups that are.

The Catholic Church doesn't deal in generalities. Generalities get us into messes like this one. Catholicism is a very meticulate, specific form of Christianity.

It is a terrible warping of Christianity, you mean.

God will save whom he wills and how he wills. I don't think most of us will be going straight to heaven. It is rare that people die in a state of such perfect grace that they would go straight to heaven. You are basing this idea on nothing again.

Those who have faith in CHrist will go to heaven. If you want to be saved pray to Jesus and thank hom for dying for you and accept him as Lord of your life and follow him forever, trusting him that he loves you and will keep you. Jesus can be trusted.

Who said anything about fencing in?

Rome does NOT keep Christ. Their priests are not special. He is available for every human being.

Obviously you are going with the "priesthood of all believers" thing. As I'm sure you know from your in-depth studies of Catholicism, Catholics believe in the priesthood of all believers, but also in a sacerdotal priesthood (what is commonly just called "the priesthood" and whose members are priests and bishops) for the sacraments.

There is no need for a sacerdotal priesthood. We have Christ and through him direct access to the Father. A sacerdotal priesthood of men is an abomination.

judechild · Aug 16, 2010

Does anybody else think that DD's OP is quite funny now?

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

Dark_Lite said:
Maybe that's your problem. You swing from one epic extreme to another. That's not educationally healthy. You wind up with an extremely biased view of the thing you came from, and then when you go back your viewpoint completely flops upside down and you wind up with the exact opposite. It's kind of like how many young earth creationists simply become atheists when they realize YECism isn't true. Their faith is so tied to the validity of a literal interpretation of Genesis that it is absolutely shattered when the realization that the Earth is old finally sinks in.

The one thing I want to do is worship God is spirit and truth. It was hard on my pride abandoning Roman Catholicism after having done so much apologetic work for Rome and alienating so many people, but I would rather be shamed by admitting I was decieved and wrong than teach untruth.

Why are you talking about young earth creationism? Wanna talk about Saturn? That's about as on topic...

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

judechild said:
Does anybody else think that DD's OP is quite funny now?

I think it's quite true. I still have never seena Roman Catholic try to lead anyone to Christ. I have seen plenty try to lead people to Rome though. I even did that myself until one day the realization hit me and I said "what am I doing!"

Yarddog · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
Why do Roman Catholics...
Talk about their church all the time?

Evangelicals talk about Christ all the time. Quite a difference.

Why do non-Catholics tell so many lies about Catholics?

Catholics speak far more about Jesus than they do the Church. We mostly talk about the Church when we are defending her against those lying about her.

Dark_Lite · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
The one thing I want to do is worship God is spirit and truth. It was hard on my pride abandoning Roman Catholicism after having done so much apologetic work for Rome and alienating so many people, but I would rather be shamed by admitting I was decieved and wrong than teach untruth.

When you were Catholic, did you have this same ... "fervor" that you have now? If so, that's probably why you were alienating people. That's why you alienate them now. Trust me, the way you approach these topics does not help you at all in your "missionary" efforts.

Why are you talking about young earth creationism? Wanna talk about Saturn? That's about as on topic...

It was a reference, nothing more. But it's very relevant. I'll leave it up to you to figure out why.

DD2008 said:
I think it's quite true. I still have never seena Roman Catholic try to lead anyone to Christ. I have seen plenty try to lead people to Rome though. I even did that myself until one day the realization hit me and I said "what am I doing!"

See, this is the problem. You see what you want to see. You don't see what actually is. Who do you think was responsible for the many missionary efforts to the new world and various other locales (like Japan)? All of South and Central America was Christianized by Catholicism. Catholicism was the first form of Christianity to breach Japan's isolated culture. I'm not going to bother bringing up modern day examples because those happen all over the place all the time today.

judechild · Aug 16, 2010

Why do Catholics talk about their Church so much (on this forum)?

Well, it's because of things like:

"That is man made error."
"That institution is a mission field full of peopel who need Christ. "
"It is a terrible warping of Christianity, you mean."
"Rome does NOT keep Christ."
"Roman Catholicism is full of lies. It is like mormonism in many ways."
"They have entirely missed the gospel "
"I believe it is a profane institution. "
"I think the catholic mass is sacreligious."
"Marian apparitions are demonic."
"Rome is just endless in its complications and red tape."
"It's truely dead and isn't reaching a lost world for Christ."
"It is hurting people and leading them away from Christ. "
"Actually that's your blindness talking."

As I said earlier, it seems that the Evangelical talks more about what they think about the Catholic Church, then the Catholic talks about anything.

Again: "In my experience, the Evangelical claims to know my relationship to the Father, and judges me accordingly."

nephilimiyr · Aug 16, 2010

judechild said:
Does anybody else think that DD's OP is quite funny now?

No, I think it's a real observation by him that alot of us have had and to think that the disscussion here has put an end to that, especially since I believe you have all side stepped the issuse, is ignoring the fact of what many people feel and observer. It can be passed off as misunderstandings or what ever you want to call it but it is an accurate observation that alot of us observe.

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

Dark_Lite said:
When you were Catholic, did you have this same ... "fervor" that you have now? If so, that's probably why you were alienating people. That's why you alienate them now. Trust me, the way you approach these topics does not help you at all in your "missionary" efforts.

No I did not. Things were different then. I served as a sponser for a guy once and sat with him through the months of RCIA until easter vigil. I helped two people get "baptized" I served in the knights of columbus, and did some apologetic work. However, I always had conscience problems. There were things I could tell were wrong. Now I have none of those issues. I know that Christ is right. I know Rome is wrong.

See, this is the problem. You see what you want to see. You don't see what actually is.

That is why it is impossible for us to communicate because I feel the same about you and your kind.

nephilimiyr · Aug 16, 2010

judechild said:
Why do Catholics talk about their Church so much (on this forum)?

No, the OP is asking why do you talk about your church while Evangelicals talk about Christ.

Please don't use this thread as your promotion for Catholicism!!

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

nephilimiyr said:
No, the OP is asking why do you talk about your church while others talk about Christ.

Please don't use this thread as your promotio0n your Catholicism!!

They use every thread to promote their catholicism. It doesn't matter the title. This thread is about them promoting their catholicism instead fo Christ so it is only natural that they carry on as usual.

:doh:

Dark_Lite · Aug 16, 2010

DD2008 said:
That is why it is impossible for us to communicate because I feel the same about you and your kind.

"Kind." How lovely.

Communication is not impossible. There must be a willingness on the parts of both parties to recognize that which truly is in each area of contention. I don't really care if you state that a Catholic belief leads to whatever you think is wrong. It's the complete misrepresentation of Catholic beliefs that I have a problem with.

Here's a challenge for you: the next time you decide to argue against Catholicism, why don't you use only the Catechism? Nothing from John MacArthur and friends. No outside sources. Use only the Catechism or sources that direct you to relevant places in the Catechism, but always use the final word of the Catechism. That will give you what true Catholic belief is, and from there you can object to it all you want.

DD2008 · Aug 16, 2010

Dark_Lite said:
"Kind." How lovely.

Communication is not impossible. There must be a willingness on the parts of both parties to recognize that which truly is in each area of contention. I don't really care if you state that a Catholic belief leads to whatever you think is wrong. It's the complete misrepresentation of Catholic beliefs that I have a problem with.

Here's a challenge for you: the next time you decide to argue against Catholicism, why don't you use only the Catechism? Nothing from John MacArthur and friends. No outside sources. Use only the Catechism or sources that direct you to relevant places in the Catechism, but always use the final word of the Catechism. That will give you what true Catholic belief is, and from there you can object to it all you want.

The Cataclysm! Absurd.
And again you try to steer the subject of Christ into one of Catholicism. You try to replace the bible with the cataclysm. Typical.
The bible is the written truth not the cataclysm. There is never any reason to try to discuss godly things outside of it.

I don't care about Catholicism. I care about Jesus Christ. He is the way the truth and the life. HE is what matters.

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