Why gays, lesbians, transgendered, and others are born

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ivebeenshown

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It's not a false teaching based on a literal reading of the Bible. You've only proven that you cherry pick the Bible just as much as those you condemn.

Do you believe God created the world in six mornings and evenings?

Just saying, billion-year-long evolution and inborn gender identity/sexuality have one thing in common -- it's a total leap of faith. There's no hard, scientific, absolute proof either way. I put my faith in Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit which wrote the bible through the hands of the prophets of God.

2 Timothy 4: 1-5:
When Christ Jesus comes as king, he will be the judge of everyone, whether they are living or dead. So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you to preach God's message. Do it willingly, even if it isn't the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient. The time is coming when people won't listen to good teaching. Instead, they will look for teachers who will please them by telling them only what they are itching to hear. They will turn from the truth and eagerly listen to senseless stories. But you must stay calm and be willing to suffer. You must work hard to tell the good news and to do your job well.

The good thing for any one who has been homosexual with another person (myself included) is that Jesus is our savior and God's word is true. The truth of God's word and the glorious Holy Spirit is there to comfort us as we strive to give up those parts of our lives which we hold so dearly onto, and it lets us know that we will have God's eternal kingdom. We are saved by faith, not works, but we should love God and wish to do good works as to honor God.
 
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Jase

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Do you believe God created the world in six mornings and evenings?
Nope, I know beyond a reasonable doubt that he in fact didn't. Genesis is an oral song, meant to convey a metaphorical message based on the primitive understanding of the ancient Hebrews.

Just saying, billion-year-long evolution and inborn gender identity/sexuality have one thing in common -- it's a total leap of faith There's no hard, scientific, absolute proof either way. I put my faith in Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit which wrote the bible through the hands of the prophets of God.
If you actually understood science, you would realize how wrong you are. Might I suggest you hop over to the Origins Theology forum and discuss this? The Earth is approx. 4.5 billion years old. The universe is approx. 13 billion years old. This is as much a fact as anything in existence can be. The Theory of Evolution ( and please don't say that "it's just a theory - that is a horrible argument) is the most well evidenced, well supported scientific theory in existence. We know it works, because we use it every day. The entire foundation of Modern medicine is due to the Theory of Evolution. Evolution is better supported than even gravity, germs, or atoms.

So no, there is no faith involved in science. It is ridiculously well supported by billions of pieces of evidence.

2 Timothy 4: 1-5:
When Christ Jesus comes as king, he will be the judge of everyone, whether they are living or dead. So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you to preach God's message. Do it willingly, even if it isn't the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient. The time is coming when people won't listen to good teaching. Instead, they will look for teachers who will please them by telling them only what they are itching to hear. They will turn from the truth and eagerly listen to senseless stories. But you must stay calm and be willing to suffer. You must work hard to tell the good news and to do your job well.
And how does this not apply to Christians who ignore all of the world's evidence? You want to hear that creationism is true, or that homosexuality is a sin. Your faith rests on these being true. The evidence proves you are being mislead, however.
 
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kenblaster5000

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For a number of years I held the fundamentalist position that the gay community must be classified as sinful. That they should not be classified with those suffering from a genetic anomaly from birth. I re-examined my teaching and learned that I was mistaught and the real reason it took a while for me to adopt the truth was because I was taught for years that I already had the truth and I was very proud of that fact. It also helped a great deal that my conservative brethren published material that inflamed my scriptural pride by declaring that the Gay community was out to overthrow the Lord's church and the Christian influence in the U.S.A.

When I came to facing the truth, I had to find out for myself why God would allow people to be born with these kinds of anomalies that would draw the worst rejection from the heterosexual community. It finally made sense to me when I studied the Bible with no prior mental poisoning:



1 Corinthians 1:25-29 (King James Version)



25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


God uses these people as His 'bait' in everyday situations. These are people who are sent in much like the two vulnerable men that were sent in to Sodom. We do not know why God choses this as one of His methods of confirming things....we just know by the scriptures that He does. They are people who are perfect for God's work in this area. :clap:

Nope, try again.:)
 
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kenblaster5000

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Well, then the geocentric conspiracy disproves the Bible as true by your logic, since the Church for hundreds of years claimed as a fact that the Earth was geocentric as written in the Bible. They were very very wrong.

And what church was that?
 
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kenblaster5000

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It's not a false teaching based on a literal reading of the Bible. You've only proven that you cherry pick the Bible just as much as those you condemn.


There are a lot of gold nuggets in the bible to pick out and give to others.
 
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kenblaster5000

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The Catholic Church - the only church around until the Protestant Reformation.

Right answer. I just watched some history of the catholic church and the knights templars. It may be that freemasonry is an offshoot of the templars which were protectors of the pope turn enemy of the catholic church. Interesting stories. Just for people's information if I speak of His church or the body of Christ I am not talking about any denomination in particular.
 
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ivebeenshown

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Nope, I know beyond a reasonable doubt that he in fact didn't. Genesis is an oral song, meant to convey a metaphorical message based on the primitive understanding of the ancient Hebrews.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

"The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32

"These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" Matthew 15:8-9

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.... For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:6-8,10

I have more faith in God than any so-called scientist or yourself, Jase. I can never trust any human being 100% but I can trust God. I trust God to give me eternal life, and what good is a God who promises eternal life if he lied and said he created the earth in six evenings and mornings when he didn't?

I tell you now Jase: my Father the Lord, and Lord Jesus Christ will give me eternal life, and they have not once lied to me nor will they ever. This life is only as important as the salvation we are able to learn about in it, and spread to others.
 
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kenblaster5000

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"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

"The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32

"These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" Matthew 15:8-9

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.... For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:6-8,10

I have more faith in God than any so-called scientist or yourself, Jase. I can never trust any human being 100% but I can trust God. I trust God to give me eternal life, and what good is a God who promises eternal life if he lied and said he created the earth in six evenings and mornings when he didn't?

I tell you now Jase: my Father the Lord, and Lord Jesus Christ will give me eternal life, and they have not once lied to me nor will they ever. This life is only as important as the salvation we are able to learn about in it, and spread to others.

:amen:
 
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Jase

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"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17
You really need to learn why using this verse does not prove the Bible is inerrant. As much as I realize this will be a waste and fall on deaf ears:

1) We have no idea who wrote Timothy. Most scholars agree it wasn't Paul.

2) The only scripture that existed when that verse was written was the Torah (and maybe the Tanakh). Certainly not the New Testament. The logical conclusion is that Timothy was referring to the Torah since the Laws of Moses were studied in the Temple for instruction in righteousness.

3) How do you define "All-Scripture" ? Which Biblical compilation does that refer to, the Catholic scripture, Protestant scripture, Orthodox, Jewish? You do realize that there exists lots of scripture that was not chosen to be canonized by the Catholic church right? So, by your logic, Timothy was also claiming that Enoch, the Apocrypha, Maccabees, and the Gospel of Thomas were all considered inspired by God and useful for instruction in righteousness.

4) Nothing in that verse implies anything related to inerrancy or perfection of the Bible.

Please stop using Timothy to support the Bible. It's not only circular, it doesn't apply to anything but the Torah.
 
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kenblaster5000

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You really need to learn why using this verse does not prove the Bible is inerrant. As much as I realize this will be a waste and fall on deaf ears:

1) We have no idea who wrote Timothy. Most scholars agree it wasn't Paul.

2) The only scripture that existed when that verse was written was the Torah (and maybe the Tanakh). Certainly not the New Testament. The logical conclusion is that Timothy was referring to the Torah since the Laws of Moses were studied in the Temple for instruction in righteousness.

3) How do you define "All-Scripture" ? Which Biblical compilation does that refer to, the Catholic scripture, Protestant scripture, Orthodox, Jewish? You do realize that there exists lots of scripture that was not chosen to be canonized by the Catholic church right? So, by your logic, Timothy was also claiming that Enoch, the Apocrypha, Maccabees, and the Gospel of Thomas were all considered inspired by God and useful for instruction in righteousness.

4) Nothing in that verse implies anything related to inerrancy or perfection of the Bible.

Please stop using Timothy to support the Bible. It's not only circular, it doesn't apply to anything but the Torah.

1 Timothy 1:1-2

1. Paul and apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2. Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:1-2

1. Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2. To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

From Paul, the Father and Jesus Christ. How is that for a golden nugget and cherry picking?
 
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ivebeenshown

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You really need to learn why using this verse does not prove the Bible is inerrant.
Please stop using Timothy to support the Bible. It's not only circular, it doesn't apply to anything but the Torah.

What about Lord Jesus' own words?

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

John 5:45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"
 
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Jase

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What about Lord Jesus' own words?

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

John 5:45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"
Once again, define "scripture". There is more to scripture than just what's in the Protestant Bible. There was no New Testament when Jesus said that, and since he studied the Torah exclusively, i'm sure that's what he was referring to.
 
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ivebeenshown

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Moses wrote the earth was created in six evenings and six mornings.

If one does not believe what Moses wrote, how can one believe what Jesus said -- that he is the son of God who gives us everlasting life?

Genesis was the beginning which Moses wrote, which Jesus confirmed.

2 Timothy 4:
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
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kenblaster5000

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Once again, define "scripture". There is more to scripture than just what's in the Protestant Bible. There was no New Testament when Jesus said that, and since he studied the Torah exclusively, i'm sure that's what he was referring to.


Did Jesus have to study the old testament? He is the Word.
 
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Jase

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Moses wrote the earth was created in six evenings and six mornings.
And God's physical creation proves that the Earth was not created in 6 24 hour days. The physical evidence can't lie. If it disagrees with our interpretation of the Bible, our interpretation is wrong.

St. Augustine very bluntly explained why Christians should not argue for such absurd things as a literal Genesis. [emphasis mine]


It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.
– De Genesi ad literam 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [408
 
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kenblaster5000

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Hard to say. It would seem he was not given complete knowledge when he was born, since he spent his childhood in the Temple studying the Torah.

At age 12 or so He was reasoning scriptures with the older men in the temple. The gospels say He did grow in wisdom and stature.
 
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Jase

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At age 12 or so He was reasoning scriptures with the older men in the temple. The gospels say He did grow in wisdom and stature.
So it's safe to assume he was not born with perfect wisdom, but developed it at a rapid rate compared to other scholars at the time.
 
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