True Holiness doesn't come from the Law

Cassidy said:

You may not be agitated...but you'll be grieving for that child when he's dead.

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This is assuming of course that GOD has no love for any child, whether obedient unto death or not. I've never said those who do not obey will not have eternal life. I am not GOD therefore not qaulified to make that decision. It is all up to HIM, but one cannot ignore what HE has said through the Apostle Paul, that we all will stand before the judgement seat of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

NatalieJan777 said:

This is assuming of course that GOD has no love for any child, whether obedient unto death or not. I've never said those who do not obey will not have eternal life. I am not GOD therefore not qaulified to make that decision. It is all up to HIM, but one cannot ignore what HE has said through the Apostle Paul, that we all will stand before the judgement seat of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

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And when we do, what do you think God would rather see? Your filthy works or Christ's works in you?

Light hearted said:

I know we are like beating a dead horse over and over, but for someone else who may be keeping up with these posts, here goes.

Yes, putting aside the sinful nature is a duty, or as a saved person it should become more of a natural behavior. For if one is living their life in the Spirit, there will be a continuous nudging in there daily path.

I do like the seatbelt idea, here I will grow with the idea.


Lets take two children.

First child is saved, Jesus as savior, Grace unmerrited.

Second child, declares salvation through Jesus, yet wants to return to works to maintain salvation.


First child, jumps in the car, knowing the ride is gonna be bumpy, waits patiently for an adult (Jesus) to fasten and adjust the fit of the seatbelt. This child knows just enough to not rely on his own fastening and adjusting the fit of the seat belt. This child has the Faith to be content with the workings of an experienced belt fastener (Jesus).

Second child, jumps in the car, knowing the ride is gonna be bumpy, waits patiently for an adult (Jesus) to fasten and adjust the fit of the seatbelt. This child knows just enough to not rely on his own fastening and adjusting of the fit of the seat belt. This child also has the Faith to be content with the workings of an experienced belt fastener (Jesus). But wait, what is this, the second child has undone the belt, reached right down there and un-fastened the work of the adult (Jesus). Now the child grabs both ends of the belt and fastens it together himself.

Go figure, the law of fastening the belt was fulfilled (by Jesus), yet the child thought he could go through the process by himself and re-fulfill the law (already filled by Jesus).

Sure the seat belt clicked together for the child and he felt confident, but it wasn't done perfectly. When the child un-fastened the belt, the adjustment changed. When the car slid off the road and hit a tree, the child slid out of the belt and died.

The first child had a perfect fit with a PERFECT (Jesus) click, he was secure for eternity, not by his works but by the works of Jesus Christ. His belt held PERFECT (Jesus) for he didn't mess with the PERFECT(Jesus) fit.

Just a thought, as an adult in a real life situation wouldn't you as the adult get a little irritated at the second child.

The point.... leave the fulfilment of the law to Jesus!! Get out there and tell the world what He has done for you. Do good works in the name of the Lord. Help to save the lost. Help the needy. As a saved person, don't focus on the law, focus on Jesus.

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Let me see if I can't break this down.

(Flesh)Both children need the seatbelt properly fastened for a guaranteed safe trip. (Spirit)Both children know the need for a Savior.

(Flesh)Both children leave the fastening of the seatbelts completly to the adult. (Spirit)Both children leave the salvation process to the one who perfected it and made it possible through Faith.

(Flesh)Both children could be found to be breaking the seatbelt law if not properly fastened but The law of having seatbelts fastened is now fulfilled by the adult, the children are now righteous in the fulfilling of the seatbelt law, not by their own works but by letting the adult fulfill the law for them.(Spirit)Both children will be judged according the "Law". Thank God for Jesus, both children are right now saved for eternity since they put all their trust in Jesus and His works alone.

(Flesh)Both children were safe/secure. But the second child chose to undue the work of the adult and refulfill the seatbelt law by doing the fastening himself, yet imperfectly. (Spirit)Believers are saved by the Grace of God brought forth by Jesus. But some believers after being saved by Grace, become missdirected by false teachings and remove Grace by going back to trying to refulfill the "law", yet imperfectly.

(Flesh)Both children were in the car when it hit the tree, the first child secured by the adults work survived the crash. The second child, since he undid the pefect seatbelt fastening, slipped out of the seatbelt at the time if impact and died. (Spirit)Both children went before judgement. The first child when asked to give account, turned to Jesus and declared the 5th, (refering to Grace). Do to his Faith in Jesus alone he walked through the narrow gate. Second child when asked also turned to Jesus and also declared the 5th (refering to Grace). Jesus looked back and replied, "sorry, I had you secured in Grace, yet you removed it and chose to fulfill the "law" yourself", imperfectly. Since no one is made righteous through the "law" the second child will not find etenal life.

Please all who read the story, please do not interpret the Bible the same way Natalie interpreted the seatbelt story. Sorry Nat.:o

The only thing she got out of the story was the independence of the child, one who tried to fulfill the law by itself, and she was proud of it.

Cassidy on the other had saw and focused on what Jesus did and mentioned how the child returned to his vomit when it focused on his work verses focusing on Jesus work.

The sentence of the father being irritated should have been a clear representation of how God gets irritated with those He has sent the Holy Spirit to dwell within, then watch as they turn back to self works to save themselves.

(Flesh) if the child can fasten it's own seatbelt perfectly by it's own works, why does it need an adult? (Spirit) If the child can secure it's own salvation by self works, then why did Jesus suffer on the cross?

Just a side note....(flesh)As a responsible adult, If my child fastened it's own seatbelt, I'd still check to see if it was fastened and adjusted correctly. (Spirit) As a true believer, I'd check my beliefs to make sure my salvation is secure by Jesus works and none of my own. In other words, TRUST IN HIM ALONE!!

Cassidy said:

And when we do, what do you think God would rather see? Your filthy works or Christ's works in you?

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There is no such thing as a filthy 'good' work, the only filth is deliberately sinning.

Psalm 106:39 Thus they became unclean in their practices, And played the harlot in their deeds.


Christ is the one leading me to obedience in HIM.

NatalieJan777 said:

There is no such thing as a filthy 'good' work, the only filth is deliberately sinning.

Psalm 106:39 Thus they became unclean in their practices, And played the harlot in their deeds.


Christ is the one leading me to obedience in HIM.

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Sister

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Sister

Jesus is your captain

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


follow him

Mt 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

Light hearted said:

Let me see if I can't break this down.

(Flesh)Both children need the seatbelt properly fastened for a guaranteed safe trip. (Spirit)Both children know the need for a Savior.

(Flesh)Both children leave the fastening of the seatbelts completly to the adult. (Spirit)Both children leave the salvation process to the one who perfected it and made it possible through Faith.

(Flesh)Both children could be found to be breaking the seatbelt law if not properly fastened but The law of having seatbelts fastened is now fulfilled by the adult, the children are now righteous in the fulfilling of the seatbelt law, not by their own works but by letting the adult fulfill the law for them.(Spirit)Both children will be judged according the "Law". Thank God for Jesus, both children are right now saved for eternity since they put all their trust in Jesus and His works alone.

(Flesh)Both children were safe/secure. But the second child chose to undue the work of the adult and refulfill the seatbelt law by doing the fastening himself, yet imperfectly. (Spirit)Believers are saved by the Grace of God brought forth by Jesus. But some believers after being saved by Grace, become missdirected by false teachings and remove Grace by going back to trying to refulfill the "law", yet imperfectly.

(Flesh)Both children were in the car when it hit the tree, the first child secured by the adults work survived the crash. The second child, since he undid the pefect seatbelt fastening, slipped out of the seatbelt at the time if impact and died. (Spirit)Both children went before judgement. The first child when asked to give account, turned to Jesus and declared the 5th, (refering to Grace). Do to his Faith in Jesus alone he walked through the narrow gate. Second child when asked also turned to Jesus and also declared the 5th (refering to Grace). Jesus looked back and replied, "sorry, I had you secured in Grace, yet you removed it and chose to fulfill the "law" yourself", imperfectly. Since no one is made righteous through the "law" the second child will not find etenal life.

Please all who read the story, please do not interpret the Bible the same way Natalie interpreted the seatbelt story. Sorry Nat.:o

The only thing she got out of the story was the independence of the child, one who tried to fulfill the law by itself, and she was proud of it.

Cassidy on the other had saw and focused on what Jesus did and mentioned how the child returned to his vomit when it focused on his work verses focusing on Jesus work.

The sentence of the father being irritated should have been a clear representation of how God gets irritated with those He has sent the Holy Spirit to dwell within, then watch as they turn back to self works to save themselves.

(Flesh) if the child can fasten it's own seatbelt perfectly by it's own works, why does it need an adult? (Spirit) If the child can secure it's own salvation by self works, then why did Jesus suffer on the cross?

Just a side note....(flesh)As a responsible adult, If my child fastened it's own seatbelt, I'd still check to see if it was fastened and adjusted correctly. (Spirit) As a true believer, I'd check my beliefs to make sure my salvation is secure by Jesus works and none of my own. In other words, TRUST IN HIM ALONE!!

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I see you've taken the degrading route brother, how come?

See your last sentence about a responsible adult checking the seatbelt?

My salvation is secure in my belief in Christ Jesus, not opinions of man. And HE is more than capable of checking my seatbelt as a responsible parent, just as I am sure HE is capable of rechecking the seatbelt of the one he had already fastened.

Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

I am pretty sure that GOD's work is not inclusive of tearing others down.

Galatians 6:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Luke 6:31-35 Do to others as you would have them do to you. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

We are sanctified by HIS WORD and it takes self control on our part in putting off the sinfull nature to follow HIM. It is not easy brother, and definately not for the selfish or faint of heart.

IN HIS ABILITY TO HELP ME OVERCOME IS WHERE I PUT MY TRUST.

John 15:4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

NatalieJan777 said:

There is no such thing as a filthy 'good' work, the only filth is deliberately sinning.

Psalm 106:39 Thus they became unclean in their practices, And played the harlot in their deeds.


Christ is the one leading me to obedience in HIM.

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ALL works that we perform are as dirty rags, the ONLY works that are good are Christ's works. We will be judged by the works of Christ, they are the only works worthy of God...not ours!

So again I ask, would you rather God judge your filthy works or the works of Christ in you?

NatalieJan777 said:

I see you've taken the degrading route brother, how come?

See your last sentence about a responsible adult checking the seatbelt?

My salvation is secure in my belief in Christ Jesus, not opinions of man. And HE is more than capable of checking my seatbelt as a responsible parent, just as I am sure HE is capable of rechecking the seatbelt of the one he had already fastened.

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Degrading?...............As long as you can say that once one is saved by Grace, one does not turn back to the law to maintain salvation, I will apologize for creating a degrading statement.

But, if you have suggested that once saved by Grace, one has to go back to the law and trying to fulfill it by ones own works, then it is not I who is being degrading, for it is you that has been degrading the work of Jesus.

Could you kindly choose which of the two above you stand for?

I can say absolutly I believe the first one, once saved by Grace, no turning back to the law.

Now it's your turn....

Cassidy said:

ALL works that we perform are as dirty rags, the ONLY works that are good are Christ's works. We will be judged by the works of Christ, they are the only works worthy of God...not ours!

So again I ask, would you rather God judge your filthy works or the works of Christ in you?

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Pre Christ:

Isaiah 64:5-12 You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins. Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand. Do not be angry beyond measure, O LORD; do not remember our sins forever. Oh, look upon us, we pray, for we are all your people. Your sacred cities have become a desert; even Zion is a desert, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and glorious temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins. After all this, O LORD, will you hold yourself back? Will you keep silent and punish us beyond measure?


Isaiah 65:1-9 "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.' All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations-- a people who continually provoke me to my very face, offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on altars of brick; who sit among the graves and spend their nights keeping secret vigil; who eat the flesh of pigs, and whose pots hold broth of unclean meat; who say, 'Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!' Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day. "See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent but will pay back in full; I will pay it back into their laps-- both your sins and the sins of your fathers," says the LORD. "Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains and defied me on the hills, I will measure into their laps the full payment for their former deeds." This is what the LORD says: "As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes and men say, 'Don't destroy it, there is yet some good in it,' so will I do in behalf of my servants; I will not destroy them all. I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, and from Judah those who will possess my mountains; my chosen people will inherit them, and there will my servants live.

NatalieJan777 said:

Pre Christ:

Isaiah 64:5-12 You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins. Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand. Do not be angry beyond measure, O LORD; do not remember our sins forever. Oh, look upon us, we pray, for we are all your people. Your sacred cities have become a desert; even Zion is a desert, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and glorious temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins. After all this, O LORD, will you hold yourself back? Will you keep silent and punish us beyond measure?


Isaiah 65:1-9 "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.' All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations-- a people who continually provoke me to my very face, offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on altars of brick; who sit among the graves and spend their nights keeping secret vigil; who eat the flesh of pigs, and whose pots hold broth of unclean meat; who say, 'Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!' Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day. "See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent but will pay back in full; I will pay it back into their laps-- both your sins and the sins of your fathers," says the LORD. "Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains and defied me on the hills, I will measure into their laps the full payment for their former deeds." This is what the LORD says: "As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes and men say, 'Don't destroy it, there is yet some good in it,' so will I do in behalf of my servants; I will not destroy them all. I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, and from Judah those who will possess my mountains; my chosen people will inherit them, and there will my servants live.

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Posting scripture without explanation of how it relates to the disscussion is a pure waste of space.

We all read the same Bible, yet have different interpertations, this is why just posting scripture without your own interpertation is a waste of space.

Please explain your reason for posting the scripture above.

NatalieJan777 said:

Pre Christ:

Isaiah 64:5-12 You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins. Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand. Do not be angry beyond measure, O LORD; do not remember our sins forever. Oh, look upon us, we pray, for we are all your people. Your sacred cities have become a desert; even Zion is a desert, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and glorious temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins. After all this, O LORD, will you hold yourself back? Will you keep silent and punish us beyond measure?


Isaiah 65:1-9 "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.' All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations-- a people who continually provoke me to my very face, offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on altars of brick; who sit among the graves and spend their nights keeping secret vigil; who eat the flesh of pigs, and whose pots hold broth of unclean meat; who say, 'Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!' Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day. "See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent but will pay back in full; I will pay it back into their laps-- both your sins and the sins of your fathers," says the LORD. "Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains and defied me on the hills, I will measure into their laps the full payment for their former deeds." This is what the LORD says: "As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes and men say, 'Don't destroy it, there is yet some good in it,' so will I do in behalf of my servants; I will not destroy them all. I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, and from Judah those who will possess my mountains; my chosen people will inherit them, and there will my servants live.

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News flash - we're in post Christ now.

And you didn't answer the question....Are you relying on your own imperfect (if you will) works for your salvation/reward or Christs?

Because, I don't know about you, all the seemingly good works that I do isn't me...do you understand? When I love someone with the love of God, it's not me. When I help my neighbour and feed the poort...it's not me. When I am thoughtful and loving...it's not me...no....It's christ! For if it were me, I'd stuff it up...for sure! But through the work of the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus...my works are his and his alone! No contamination!!!

This is how I will be judged! I'm sorry that you are relying on yourself instead of Christ.

1 John 2:28-29 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

1 John 3:1-2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

John 15:18 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.

Living in the sin of the flesh is worldly and will always be so.

2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

That desire is to continue in their sins, just as the pharisees did and Jesus rightly accused them of keeping men from entering the kingdom of GOD by making up thier own rules and agenda's and not following GOD's SOUND DOCTRINE.

What the law couldn't do, Christ Jesus did do; giving us the freedom to sin no more.

Revelation 1:5-6

5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood

6and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

NatalieJan777 said:

1 John 2:28-29 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

1 John 3:1-2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

John 15:18 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.

Living in the sin of the flesh is worldly and will always be so.

2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

That desire is to continue in their sins, just as the pharisees did and Jesus rightly accused them of keeping men from entering the kingdom of GOD by making up thier own rules and agenda's and not following GOD's SOUND DOCTRINE.

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Are you perfectly sinless and never sin? Yes or No?

1 Timothy 1:8-11 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Luke 17:1-4 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Here is the truth, if we are in Christ Jesus we will not transgress GOD's laws, here is how we've been set free, by repenting from our sins, being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, with the commitment to follow Christ Jesus and all that HE has commanded us to follow.

2 Peter 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.

He is able to hold the righteous from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment. To say that HE is not able to do such is to say NOT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD and I will not listen to such nonsense.

NatalieJan777 said:

1 Timothy 1:8-11 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Luke 17:1-4 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Here is the truth, if we are in Christ Jesus we will not transgress GOD's laws, here is how we've been set free, by repenting from our sins, being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, with the commitment to follow Christ Jesus and all that HE has commanded us to follow.

2 Peter 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.

He is able to hold the righteous from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment. To say that HE is not able to do such is to say NOT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD and I will not listen to such nonsense.

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Are you perfectly sinless and never sin? Yes or No?

OR, are you a 10 Commandment breaker and a sinner? Yes or No?

NatalieJan777 said:

1 Timothy 1:8-11 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Luke 17:1-4 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Here is the truth, if we are in Christ Jesus we will not transgress GOD's laws, here is how we've been set free, by repenting from our sins, being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, with the commitment to follow Christ Jesus and all that HE has commanded us to follow.

2 Peter 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.

He is able to hold the righteous from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment. To say that HE is not able to do such is to say NOT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD and I will not listen to such nonsense.

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We are to follow Jesus, not moses. In fact, it is absolutely impossible to follow moses anymore. The jews have no temple, nor is there anyone from the levitical priesthood around anymore, so it is impossible to follow what the OT laws command, GOD made that so.

That's why Jesus said it was a "new" covenant.

ARBITER01 said:

We are to follow Jesus, not moses. In fact, it is absolutely impossible to follow moses anymore. The jews have no temple, nor is there anyone from the levitical priesthood around anymore, so it is impossible to follow what the OT laws command, GOD made that so.

That's why Jesus said it was a "new" covenant.

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Do you perfectly follow Jesus? If not, then do you admit you are a Law and 10 Commandment breaker and disobedient to Jesus?