I've noticed does other verses as well. They scare and deeply bother me. If they did, why would they think the end would come in their lifetime? why?
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What does this verse mean????????!
- Thread starter SavoirAimer
- Start date
I've noticed does other verses as well. They scare and deeply bother me. If they did, why would they think the end would come in their lifetime? why?
A Messiah to overthrow the hated Romans was the desire of the Jewish nation. So, that hope was transferred onto Jesus by the NT Christians. Paul initially expected an imminent return, but later realised that would not happen in his lifetime.
Ever since throughtout history Christians have seen some events that are the prelude to Christ's return. One day He will. Until then we just get on with daily living with Him.
John
NZ
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Those are now very dated views. What is now recognised is that is that the kingdom of God came with and in Jesus. His resurrection evidenced the beginning of the new order, death had been conquered and where His life is shared with us through the Holy Spirit, until Jesus does return and completes the restoration of the cosmos.
John
NZ
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Since you quoted my entire post, I'm not sure what views you're characterizing as "very dated." I don't disagree with anything in your post, but it seems only marginally relevant to the question posed by the OP -- i.e., how to explain the biblical verses in which Jesus seems to have incorrectly charcterized His return as an imminent physical event. I read a fair amount of modern theology, and I don't see any basis for charcterizing as "very dated" the highly plausible and reasonable explanations that Jesus was simply wrong or (more likely) that these words were never actually spoken but were attributed to Him by well-meaning gospel writers who were trying to hold a fledgling sect together under near-impossible conditions of persecution. I doubt very seriously that Jesus (if He said these things) or the gospel writers who inserted them intended any mysterious "it's-gonna-take-a-theologian-to-figure-this-out" meaning; it seems more reasonable to me that the words were intended to have their ordinary meaning, but were simply incorrect.
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Hi,
My post #11 was a brief response. Jesus' words n that verse were not about his second coming. Hope this clarifies for you.
John
NZ
My post #11 was a brief response. Jesus' words n that verse were not about his second coming. Hope this clarifies for you.
John
NZ
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are you serious? Do you not read your Bible? God IS the Truth, not only can He not lie, He doesn't have to because He controls everything.
You simply lack the ability to decipher what he was saying here. That can be solved by deeper study, but never by accused the creator of lying.
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Thanks for your reply Johnnz. About the early Christians, I don't understand how people that walked with Jesus can believe such things, What about Jesus, Did he not know that the return would not be in their lifetime? I noticed that Paul even said that its better not to get married. Is this all because they believed the end would be in their lifetime?
And about Jesus, He said that he would come soon, this is so confusing.
There's alot of things that i want to say but i am afraid to because i don't want to sin.
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Firstly, our Father never gets upset with our genuine questions. He fully understands our human limitations.
The disciples did not understand a lot about Jesus at the time, including his death and resurrection. But some of our difficulties are due to us being 2000 years removed from that time. We quite often don't understand the context of what Jesus said, and we need people to help us peel back some of history to give us better insights.
Jesus Himself said that only the Father knows the exact time. The struggle the disciples, and the Jews generally at that time, is they did not understand what Messiah was really going to achieve. When they asked about Jesus' return they saw that in a limited nationalistic framework of immediate world dominion. They did not foresee the coming of the Holy Spirit and that being the beginning of God's kingdom on earth.
Paul made those comments to the Corinthians. It is quite likely they reflect Jesus words about the coming national tragedy and the hardship that would be for pregnat women and parents with young children. Paul could see the livelihood of a Jewish revolt that could happen at any time, or God may have told him about it, and so offered that advice. He was not speaking out against marriage as a general principle.
Jesus coming soon? That was reference to the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Jesus taught this when he was with his disciples.
John 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. NIV
Remember, the Godhead is Trinity.
John
NZ
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Quite serious, thanks. I don't believe I said anything about the Creator "lying." Do I believe there are parts of the Bible that are simply in error? Absolutely. Do I believe there are statements in the Bible attributed to Jesus that are not literally what He said? Absolutely. Do I believe Jesus was capable of speaking in error? Absolutely. I believe that the effort to "explain away" obvious errors and inconsistencies by "deciphering" hidden meanings leads to a shaky house-of-cards faith.
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Dear SavoirAimer. Jesus first came to lead Israel to Glory in God, but they did not accept Him. Deeply hurt and disappointed, Jesus became the Saviour of all who believed Him, whether Jew or Greek, or Gentile, or whosoever. Somewhere in the New Testament Jesus looks sadly onto Jerusalem, and says: " Oh Jerusalem, I would have liked to hold you like a mother-hen safe under my wings, but you did not want me. I promise: you will not see me again until you will receive me as God`s Messenger." That clearly shows that Jesus will not come again until all Israel, the chosen people, have all become Christ`s Own. Jesus is no liar, and all His promises will come true. Many Jews have already become Messianic, and Jesus died for all Mankind. God says: " whosoever will may come." And we have to Repent, give up our selfishness and unloving ways, and become loving and forgiving. Loving God with all our hearts, all our souls, and all our minds, and loving our neighbour, all others, friend or foe, as we love ourselves. Selfless love and forgiveness as God has forgiven us. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
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I totally understand that making your own excuses for something that you don't understand WILL cause errors in your faith later on.
However, God tells us that He not only created the everything, He also sustains everything. Including His word. He not only influenced the writing, He also sustains that very writing.
The Greek and Hebrew writings were never changed. So go back and decipher those to determine whether or not Jesus actually said something. This would be your first attempt to understand what Jesus was trying to get us to understand.
Next, you need to focus on the specific words that Jesus uses. His definitions are definitely not always our definitions, and this is precisely what leads to errors. God's word is perfect, it does not require that you add to it and it does not require that you take away from it. So don't, or you will be building a house-of-cards yourself.
If God was not in control of His own claimed Word, and allowed man to change it, why would we want Him to be our God?
If God was not intelligent enough to know what was going to happen, thus telling lies, why would we want Him to be our God?
You need to seek God and seek His understanding in order to explain this verse. Yes it's a confusing verse, do we want to make up our own lie so that we feel comfortable? NO. Do we want to say that God is not powerful enough to be in control and sustain His own claimed word? NO.
You have to take the bible as the truth and find a different explanation. Otherwise anything could be wrong in it and we'd all be doomed.
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I think we simply have a different understanding of the sense in which the Bible is "the truth," mine probably being a much broader understanding. My focus is on my relationship with Christ, not on whether a particular verse in the Bible can be harmonized with another seemingly inconsistent verse or that sort of thing. I believe the Bible is God's word in some broad sense, but a very human book.
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So what does it mean when God says that His Word is perfect? and that all scripture is God breathed...
I'm not trying to attack you, but wouldn't that make God a liar? If His word was not God breathed, but man created.
I'm not trying to attack you, but wouldn't that make God a liar? If His word was not God breathed, but man created.
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I'm not feeling attacked at all, so don't worry about that. I believe the Bible communicates God's message to humanity, which could probably be distilled to a couple of typewritten pages. "Perfect" isn't a word I worry about, but I would have no problem agreeing that the Bible "perfectly" communicates God's message to humanity and that the humans who authored the Bible were inspired to capture what God wanted to communicate. But I don't think the Bible is 1,500 pages of line-by-line literal God-inspired perfection from start to finish. For what it's worth, I was just reading a poll of Christians in which 86% did think it was 1,500 pages of literal line-by-line perfection, while the other 14% thought it was something else. The different perspectives on the Bible are simply part-and-parcel of Christianity. It's unfortunate that accepting the Bible as literally perfect has become something of a "litmus test" as to whether one is a "real Christian" in certain segments of American society (where the agenda is actually far more political than religious); when I was part of churches and groups where this was required, I always felt that I had to leave my brain at the door, something that I wasn't capable of doing. If someone thinks it's important to regard the Bible as literally perfect and inspired in every line and can actually believe this, I'm not going to argue with him.
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DoctorJosh
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We must remember, although the words in their original language they were written in, thus recording events as they happened are true. However, when it is then translated some of the wording can easily get changed around, not by intention, but by fault of the translations between languages and thus going back and writing each word from Greek to English can help, but some sentences don't make complete sentences when doing this so the translators had to put in the adverbs or other conjunctions to make the sentence understandable for those who read English. That is why a Lexicon is good to have around. I think there should be a Bible that is written just off the Lexicon translation because even though some sentences would not be complete, they would bring forth the true meaning of what was being said. However, even with little differences between translation, the Bible is intact and True for those books that were written complete, but the thing that confuses a lot of people is why the Catholics put Paul's letters all in one book and expect it to be as True as any other words in the Bible. So that is why I tell people to stick with Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations and then it helps leave out some confusion for the most part. So when we are in question, there are other sources such as a Lexicon to help us find the true wording in a verse if it doesn't make sense. Then know it was the fault of the translators, not God. God Bless.
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Greetings SA , and all ,
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. <-----> Luke 10:1
Jesus was saying to those he sent forth - I'm right behind you !
The glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. <---> From Isaiah 58:8
rereward -
1. The last troop; the rear-guard.
2. The end; the tail; the train behind.
3. The latter part.
...I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...<---> Revelation 1:11 ( Words of Christ )
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But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. <-----> Luke 9:27-31
Also -
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. <-----> John 8:51
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. <-----> Hebrews 11:15
Additionally -
And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. <-----> Luke 8:52
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. <-----> 1st Thessalonians 4:13-15
For those who have already crucified their flesh (See Galatians 5 esp. vs. 24 ) their body's demise is more of a sweet sleep to their soul , than it is a death , for the eternal life which follows - so swallows up death in victory , that such a demise is as though one took a brief and peaceful nap !
... Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. <---> John 11:11
If the first death ( the death of the body ) is made temporal by the second life ( born again in Christ ) , it therefore , no longer qualifies as a termination of our being .
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. <-----> Job 19:25-27
...There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. <---> 1st Corinthians 15:44
May The Lord Be Magnified !
wm
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In case the explanations you've received so far are not sufficient, here's a great study on these texts as well as Revelation in general.
Week 11 & 12 Preterist View of Revelation « Models of Eschatology
Week 11 & 12 Preterist View of Revelation « Models of Eschatology
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