In concrete terms: Demonstrate how gay marriage harms straight marriage.

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Ar Cosc

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I agree. But we must preach the word of God otherwise it'll be like hiding our light under a bushel. :)

I've no problem with that, but I'd prefer it if people said "Sorry, do you have a few minutes to talk about Jesus?", rather than accosting you, or refusing to let you politely ignore them if you're in a hurry.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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You know. .I have seen this brought up a few times so far in what I've read in the the thread. .and it is a good point. According to Christians, the aforementioned unions would also not be blessed by God. So why the focus on ONLY gays? It just weakens the argument.

My honest opinion on the issue (and I would LOVE to hear opinions on this). .I think the problem is the shock value. Most people haven't gotten used to seeing gays being intimate, holding hands, etc. .comparable to the way most people in the old days weren't used to seeing interracial couples together. . and for some homophobes it's like seeing a two-headed alien walking down the street. I think it's a matter of getting used to. .to let that shock value wear off. I know for myself that seeing that is something that kind of makes me do a double take but I attribute this to it being something new for me. I think that the more people see it, they'll get used to it. .and it won't be so shocking or abhorrent anymore.
I completely agree, it's a kind of internal culture shock. I'm gay, and even I do a double take when I say a gay couple walking down the street hand in hand. It's just so unusual, my brain skips a beat. But, then, where I live, seeing an interracial couple is just as unusual (it wasn't till I went to University that I saw an Asian woman with a Middle-Eastern man - that made me jump).

That being said, I do believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.
I disagree :p Do you believe that a secular society should allow gay marriage?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I've no problem with that, but I'd prefer it if people said "Sorry, do you have a few minutes to talk about Jesus?", rather than accosting you, or refusing to let you politely ignore them if you're in a hurry.
Or pushing their views through the legal system.
 
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LyraJean

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Unfortunately, a lot of people do care how gay marriage supposedly affects everything, and will try to force their own views on others:


Yes you're right. :)



I agree. But we must preach the word of God otherwise it'll be like hiding our light under a bushel. :)

Preaching the word of God is not creating morality laws. Preaching the word of God is living up to Christ's standards to the best of your ability. Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself. In America, all people are created equal. If gays are unable to marry and receive the same civil rights as other married couples that means they are not considered equal. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's.

Allowing gays to marry will not force religious institutions to marry them. Religious institutions can already choose who they do and do not marry. Allowing gays to marry will not change that.
 
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xGodsGracex

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I've no problem with that, but I'd prefer it if people said "Sorry, do you have a few minutes to talk about Jesus?", rather than accosting you, or refusing to let you politely ignore them if you're in a hurry.

Yes :)

Preaching the word of God is not creating morality laws.

I know.

Preaching the word of God is living up to Christ's standards to the best of your ability.

And encouraging others to believe. :)


Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself. In America, all people are created equal. If gays are unable to marry and receive the same civil rights as other married couples that means they are not considered equal. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's.

Allowing gays to marry will not force religious institutions to marry them.

I think you're wrong here.


Religious institutions can already choose who they do and do not marry.

Yes :)


Allowing gays to marry will not change that.


The word 'rights' sprang to mind.
 
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xGodsGracex

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"Allowing gays to marry will not force religious institutions to marry them.

I think you're wrong here."

Please explain what gave you the idea that someone could force a religious institution to marry them. Please explain in detail.


Gays will think it's their 'right'
 
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LyraJean

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Gays will think it's their 'right'

My husband and I are both Christian. We did not get married in a church and we were married by a Public Notary. Giving gay people the right to marry does not equal forcing religious institutions to marry them.
 
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Ayersy

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Gays will think it's their 'right'

I'm certain they wouldn't feel happy about getting married in a church which clearly has a problem with them, instead I'd assume they'd go to a place which is all to happy to let them do what they want.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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As much as we all appreciate your uncanny insight into the homosexual mind, even if you are correct, what a person thinks is their 'right' and what the law allows are two separate things.
I think out of all the answers this is the best one. The others all do not point out that its not a case of "If we wanted to we could force you, but we just do not want to."

Thats not to say the other answers are not correct though.
 
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Shemjaza

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Gays will think it's their 'right'
Right now, racist churches are not forced to marry interracial couples, so why would homophobic churches in the future be any worse off?

Also, there are Christian denominations who already perform "commitment cerimonies" for gay couples.

And another thing, if I understand fundimentalist Christian doctrine correctly, if you accept that unrepentant homosexuality is damnable sin, it won't matter that people aren't allowed to get a marriage certificate, or even if they never have homosexual sex... if they are unashamed of private gay thoughts that's just as much a sin as doing it, right? So who will you ever protect from damnation from closeting people?
 
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Rosalila

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I completely agree, it's a kind of internal culture shock. I'm gay, and even I do a double take when I say a gay couple walking down the street hand in hand. It's just so unusual, my brain skips a beat. But, then, where I live, seeing an interracial couple is just as unusual (it wasn't till I went to University that I saw an Asian woman with a Middle-Eastern man - that made me jump).


I disagree :p Do you believe that a secular society should allow gay marriage?

Lol well. .society is secular BUT we also live in a society with peoples of many different faiths (not exactly sure how it is over where you are) or no faith at all so it's hard to accommodate everyone. Though Christians may be the most vocal about gay marriage, you'd be hard pressed to find a Muslim or Jew that supports it. Then again. .if they aren't vocal then their views can't affect anything. I don't know what a resolution could be.

"Allowing gays to marry will not force religious institutions to marry them.

I think you're wrong here."

Please explain what gave you the idea that someone could force a religious institution to marry them. Please explain in detail.

If gay marriage is legalized, since most churches are private institutions, they cannot be forced to marry them. But they probably will come under fire. .then again as one poster said. .why would a gay couple want to be married in a church that dosen't accept it. They can just find one that does. It's like with any other issue. People leave a church when they don't like it's teachings and find another that makes them more comfortable.
 
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sbvera13

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The Boy Scouts of America can exclude members on the basis of sexual orientation, because they are a private institution. I imagine churches would be no different.

Of course, there's that tax-exempt thing... Churches are already excluded from being tax exempt if they discriminate based on race. Hang on to your lawyers, or get ready to start paying the IRS in the next 10 years or so.
 
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Maren

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The Boy Scouts of America can exclude members on the basis of sexual orientation, because they are a private institution. I imagine churches would be no different.

Of course, there's that tax-exempt thing... Churches are already excluded from being tax exempt if they discriminate based on race. Hang on to your lawyers, or get ready to start paying the IRS in the next 10 years or so.

Actually, churches are exempted from civil rights laws so long as it is based in the religion -- for example, a church is not required to hire an atheist as janitor if he is the most qualified, instead they may hire someone that attends their church who is less qualified. This is even true if it is all employees of the church are White and the qualified applicant that isn't a member is of another race.

It is the same way with marriages. Each church is allowed to determine who they will and will not marry. For example, Catholic churches will often not marry a couple when one is not a Catholic and sometimes will also require the couple require marriage classes prior to agreeing to marry them. Mormons require members to be interviewed for worthiness before being allowed to enter one of their temples for a wedding, even for guests. There is no reason churches will lose this ability, or their tax exempt status, just because of gay marriage.
 
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The Lady Kate

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The Boy Scouts of America can exclude members on the basis of sexual orientation, because they are a private institution. I imagine churches would be no different.

Of course, there's that tax-exempt thing... Churches are already excluded from being tax exempt if they discriminate based on race. Hang on to your lawyers, or get ready to start paying the IRS in the next 10 years or so.

Quite... in fact, the Boy Scouts are allowed to discriminate despite the federal support it receives... so I'm not too worried about churches.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Lol well. .society is secular BUT we also live in a society with peoples of many different faiths (not exactly sure how it is over where you are) or no faith at all so it's hard to accommodate everyone. Though Christians may be the most vocal about gay marriage, you'd be hard pressed to find a Muslim or Jew that supports it. Then again. .if they aren't vocal then their views can't affect anything. I don't know what a resolution could be.
Well, there are certainly lobbies in the Muslim and Jewish communities that support gay marriage, even religious gay marriage. In general, the 'nice' religious people, of whatever religion, tend to be more accepting of others, including gays and gay rights. Ideally, politicians would recognise the difference between civil and religious marriage - the Obamas and the Blairs have done it, after all.

If gay marriage is legalized, since most churches are private institutions, they cannot be forced to marry them. But they probably will come under fire. .then again as one poster said. .why would a gay couple want to be married in a church that dosen't accept it. They can just find one that does. It's like with any other issue. People leave a church when they don't like it's teachings and find another that makes them more comfortable.
I'm not a religious person, but even I would like to get married in my local church, so I can certainly understand why gay Catholics, who I find to invest more into their church than any other, would want to marry with the blessing of the RCC.
 
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