A Christian Muslim?

Rosalila

Newbie
Oct 18, 2008
162
41
✟8,018.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
I agree. The Jews don't call him Jesus either. It's Yeshua to them.

Same thing with the Mexicans. The spell his name J.E.S.U.S., but pronounce it Hea-sus.

Yeshua is simply the Aramaic translation of Jesus. . .the same goes for the other examples you provided. I'm part Hispanic. . it's more like He-Soos. You can clearly see the similarities and tell it's an issue of translation or pronunciation with Jesus, Yeshua, and the way Hispanics pronounce Jesus. Are you saying Asa is the Arabic translation of Jesus?
 
Upvote 0

benmaarof

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2005
1,191
37
48
Kuala Lumpur
✟16,643.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Yeshua is simply the Aramaic translation of Jesus. . .the same goes for the other examples you provided. I'm part Hispanic. . it's more like He-Soos. You can clearly see the similarities and tell it's an issue of translation or pronunciation with Jesus, Yeshua, and the way Hispanics pronounce Jesus. Are you saying Asa is the Arabic translation of Jesus?
It's Ee-sa, not Asa.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,545
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If we put faith in the transmission and filteration system that Islamic scholars developed, then we have A LOT of what he said recorded, in most cases word for word.

So you have a transmission and filteration system, and you (and presumably those you studied under and worship with?) hold that your holy writings are based at least in large part on what Muhammad himself said. Are there not many other Muslims, some who may be well-educated but of different sects, who disagree to some significant extent on this one point?
 
Upvote 0

JJWhite

Newbie
Dec 24, 2009
2,818
95
U.S.A.
✟11,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
So you have a transmission and filteration system, and you (and presumably those you studied under and worship with?) hold that your holy writings are based at least in large part on what Muhammad himself said. Are there not many other Muslims, some who may be well-educated but of different sects, who disagree to some significant extent on this one point?

To my knowledge, all Sunni scholars hold and have held that the two primary sources from which we derive all matters of our religion are the Qur'an (which we believe is the verbatim word of God revealed to Muhammad) and the Sunnah (the term has several usages, but in this usage it means the sayings, actions, and approvals of Muhammad, peace be upon him). [There are details.]

Secondary sources are differed over. To my knowledge, the one secondary source over which there is a consensus amongst Sunni scholars is that the consensus of the early Muslim generations (mainly the companions of the Prophet Muhammad) is to be taken as a source of legislation, based on the hadith, 'My Ummah will never AGREE upon a falsehood'. Other secondary sources include the use of logic and analogy, customs of the people of Madeenah, culture (in general), etc., but these are not agreed upon... these sources differ from one school of law to another.

I would ASSUME that Shi'ites also regard parts of the Sunnah as an authentic source of religion, but I don't know much about Shi'ites, and so it would be best if a Shi'ite explained their position on this.

There are some minority sects which rely on the Qur'an alone and dismiss the Sunnah as an authority in establishing rulings.
 
Upvote 0

Aimiel

Moved to A Site with Freedom of Speech
Aug 7, 2010
533
64
Ohio
Visit site
✟8,507.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In know folks who are both Christian and Muslim. I also know folks who are both Christian and Buddhist. And others who are Christian and Hindu. And also some who are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and American Indian spirituality. When its God that one loves, and one finds no boundries to God, some folks seem to find God in all religions.
No, they find false gods. They have an 'image' of The God of The Bible in their mind and / or other false gods mingled in, and worship and serve the image of a creature which they have imagined, more than The Creator, Who loved them, and sent His Son to die for them.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Both Jesus and Muhammad (pbut) are Muslims. It will be strange to write that Christ was a Christian.
Especially since the word Christ is used in Christian ;)
I will have to look up where the greek word for Muslim is used in the Christian NT/NC of the Bible......

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Young) Acts 26:28 And Agrippa said unto Paul, `In a little thou dost persuade me to become a Christian/Muslim!'
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

tucker58

Jesus is Lord
Aug 30, 2007
785
55
✟10,231.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Define Christian. :)

The absolute minimum definition of a Christian is a person who has publicly declared Jesus their Lord and Savior, confessed they are with sin and ask for forgiveness, and are baptized by another Christian in the name of Jesus Christ.

That is the absolute minimum to come under that Law of Grace and to receive the Holy Spirit as your personal teacher and guide. From there there is only one absolutely fatal sin, "Sins against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven."

What is sin against the Holy Spirit? That :) is probably another whole topic that will never get solved. In my opinion it is using the knowledge and power that you receive from the Holy Spirit to lead others away from God.

There are a lot of Christian ministries that are based on "just getting people baptized" so that they are saved. And these ministries are valid Christian ministries and they run the minimums.

Because Brahma is the Creator and Brahman is the Creator's Holy Spirit there is no reason why any Hindu can not be a baptized Christian. There seems to be an indication that one of the tribes of Israel moved into northern India and the Hundu religion was affected by it. Which would actually make Jesus possibly the Son of Brahma and all Christian Hindus would be sin free, no more Karma :) .

But in truth it can not be done because Christianity won't allow it to be done.

love,

tuck
 
Upvote 0

Aimiel

Moved to A Site with Freedom of Speech
Aug 7, 2010
533
64
Ohio
Visit site
✟8,507.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The absolute minimum definition of a Christian is a person who has publicly declared Jesus their Lord and Savior, confessed they are with sin and ask for forgiveness, and are baptized by another Christian in the name of Jesus Christ.
The minimum was at The Lord's side, crucified next to Him. "... remember me..." was all it took. The Lord looks upon the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Because Brahma is the Creator and Brahman is the Creator's Holy Spirit there is no reason why any Hindu can not be a baptized Christian.
Really? In the Flying Spaghetti Monster Bible, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is Creator. Do you see the problem, expecting a little water will make the tree into a good one?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rosalila
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,545
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Good point Aimiel! The thief crucified beside Jesus is a powerful message that flies in the face of our man-made baggage. Maybe even moreso than the first Preacher being a woman?!

To my knowledge, all Sunni scholars hold and have held that the two primary sources from which we derive all matters of our religion are the Qur'an

Ok thank you, I had forgotten if you had said you were Sunni and didn't want to offend by guessing incorrectly. So what I'm trying to arrive at is:

all the words of Muhammad you have are in the Qur'an?

Do Shi'ites also agree about how much of that is really his words?

(I don't know is always a respected answer :))
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Aimiel

Moved to A Site with Freedom of Speech
Aug 7, 2010
533
64
Ohio
Visit site
✟8,507.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Good point Aimiel! The thief crucified beside Jesus is a powerful message that flies in the face of our man-made baggage. Maybe even moreso than the first Preacher being a woman?!
He loves to bust up our religious ways of thinking. He wants us to come to know Him, so that when He does surprising things in surprising ways, we are ready to recognize Him for Who He is.
 
Upvote 0

JJWhite

Newbie
Dec 24, 2009
2,818
95
U.S.A.
✟11,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
all the words of Muhammad you have are in the Qur'an?

We believe the Qur'an is God's words, which Gabriel recited to Muhammad and Muhammad recited to his companions, and which then passed on by oral transmission until it was written down.

There are also collections of Hadith. There is one kind of Hadith, the Hadith Qudsi, which is Muhammad relating a direct message from God in his own words. They read, 'God said, "...".' Other Hadith are Muhammad's words (or actions, approvals, description, etc.) We believe that he was inspired in anything he said regarding religion. He did say that he was human, and that sometimes he would give his own opinion, but that when he said something was from God, then it was from God. Also, we believe that he was corrected by God if he said or did something wrong. An example of this was when he had arranged a meeting with the big shots in Quraish and was on his way to go talk to them, and a poor, blind man came to him to ask him about what he had been preaching. He frowned and told the man he was busy and hurried to his meeting that he was stressed about. Qur'an was then revealed reprimanding him for such behavior. The verses say that he should not have turned away from a person who had come SEEKING just because he wanted to influence the powerful guys. This revelation continues to be recited until today. (See Qur'an chapter 80)

Basically, we believe that anything we need for guidance was made clear.

Do Shi'ites also agree about how much of that is really his words?

(I don't know is always a respected answer :))
I don't know. :)

In Sunni Islam, if you study the Sciences of the Qur'an, you will see that the Prophet Muhammad said that the Qur'an was revealed in seven different 'ahruf'. Early scholars debated over what was meant by this. What APPEARS to be the strongest opinion (in my opinion) is that these were 7 different dialects.... like the way I speak English is different that how someone from England or Scotland or Australia would. The words commonly used in each dialect differ as well as the pronunciation. It would be difficult to memorize in a dialect different than one's own. The Arabs too had different dialects, and it seems that the Qur'an was revealed in such a way to make it easy for different tribes who came to learn to understand it and memorize it. Tradition goes that 'Uthman feared that with the different dialects people might inadvertently add things that were not part of the Qur'an (with the excuse that it was of a different dialect), so he authorized one copy which was upon the dialect of Quraish (Muhammad's tribe).

Prior to that, students of Muhammad had spread around and started teaching what they know. There were some slight differences in what they taught (mainly in pronunciation, but with some small word differences that either had the same meaning or complementary meaning)... at some time down the road (sorry, I'm bad with history and can't remember when) Qur'an scholars began rejecting many in an extra effort to protect the Qur'an. Rule one was that any narration that didn't match up with 'Uthman's manuscript was out. Rule two had to do with Arabic grammar and such and rule three had to do with the number of narrations... like, the exact same way of reading (enunciation by enunciation.. even more particular than word by word... I mean as particular as how long do I pronounce the vowel and stuff like that) had to be transmitted through a certain number of separate chains. Anyway... today there are 10 narrations that are established as absolutely authentic (because of so many chains of narration) and 4 that are called 'rare'. These 'recitations', as they are called, go back to the differences in the 7 ahruf in which the Qur'an was revealed (dialects), but do not represent them.

Most Sunni Muslims around the world recite the Qur'an according to the narration of Hafs which he learned from 'Aasim. But in North Africa, I think Warsh's narration is more popular.
 
Upvote 0
Apr 24, 2010
2,476
77
United States
Visit site
✟10,581.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Guys this is just an exploratory reality, ok?

If we took into account only what the Prophet Jesus said and only into account what the Prophet Muhammad said, "would it be possible for someone to be a Christian Muslim?"

I am still attempting to hunt common ground here just to see if there is any :) .

Everybody's input is welcome.

just love,

tuck

Well there is such a thing as being an Arabic Christian. Being that Muhammad was speaking of "aliyah" and not Allah...this brings some questions as to whether hes' a true prophet.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,545
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Also, we believe that he was corrected by God if he said or did something wrong. An example of this was when he had arranged a meeting with the big shots in Quraish and was on his way to go talk to them, and a poor, blind man came to him to ask him about what he had been preaching. He frowned and told the man he was busy and hurried to his meeting that he was stressed about. Qur'an was then revealed reprimanding him for such behavior. The verses say that he should not have turned away from a person who had come SEEKING just because he wanted to influence the powerful guys. This revelation continues to be recited until today. (See Qur'an chapter 80)

Basically, we believe that anything we need for guidance was made clear.

This is beautiful! In case you don't know, this agrees with much of what our Scriptures have to say, although we don't have a story exactly like that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tucker58

Jesus is Lord
Aug 30, 2007
785
55
✟10,231.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The minimum was at The Lord's side, crucified next to Him. "... remember me..." was all it took. The Lord looks upon the thoughts and intents of the heart.Really? In the Flying Spaghetti Monster Bible, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is Creator. Do you see the problem, expecting a little water will make the tree into a good one?

Yours, Aimiel is the "Gift." Who's gift?

love,

tuck
 
Upvote 0

tucker58

Jesus is Lord
Aug 30, 2007
785
55
✟10,231.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This is beautiful! In case you don't know, this agrees with much of what our Scriptures have to say, although we don't have a story exactly like that.

"Make no mistake. God is not a benign marshmallow of sentimentality." - Brinny

As Christians, as gentle as we are, should keep the above quote in mind :)

just stuff,

love,

tuck
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

tucker58

Jesus is Lord
Aug 30, 2007
785
55
✟10,231.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Well there is such a thing as being an Arabic Christian. Being that Muhammad was speaking of "aliyah" and not Allah...this brings some questions as to whether hes' a true prophet.

How can this be possible? What can it mean? Is this apart of why are we all at war?

"Aliyah" instead of "Allah". Who studied the Arabic? JJ White and other Muslims, what is going on here? Your input would be considered a gift.

love,

tuck
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
"Make no mistake. God is not a benign marshmallow of sentimentality." - Brinny

As Christians, as gentle as we are, should keep to above quote in mind :)
AMEN! :thumbsup: :amen:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Ezekiel 39:17 "And thou son of adam, thus says my Lord YHVH "say thou! to bird of every wing and to all of beast of the field 'be assembled ye! and come! together ye from round about on Sacrifice of Me which I sacrificing for ye, a Great Sacrifice on Mountains of Israel.
And ye eat flesh and ye drink blood.
[Reve 19:17,18]


Reve 19:17 And I perceived one Messenger standing in the sun, and He cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered! into the Supper of the Great God.
18 That Ye may be eating fleshes of kings......
[Deut 28:26/Ezekiel 39:17,18]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JJWhite

Newbie
Dec 24, 2009
2,818
95
U.S.A.
✟11,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
How can this be possible? What can it mean? Is this apart of why are we all at war?

"Aliyah" instead of "Allah". Who studied the Arabic? JJ White and other Muslims, what is going on here? Your input would be considered a gift.

love,

tuck

I have no idea what he's talking about. Who/What is Aliyah?

P.S. One of my best friends' name is Aliyah. :) Aliyah is a feminine noun meaning 'lofty'... like, someone who is high, honored, wouldn't stoop down to anything low... something like that
 
Upvote 0