In concrete terms: Demonstrate how gay marriage harms straight marriage.

Fenny the Fox · Aug 8, 2010

The Lady Kate said:
Wow... 80 posts and not one coherent argument against gay marriage... I'm subscribing just to see how badly this train wrecks.

You could try to come up with something. But it is funny to see where it goes, huh?
I would try...but even I can't play devil's advocate that well. lol

SithDoughnut · Aug 8, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
You could say that.

So, the answer is no. You are not God, therefore everything you state is your word, not God's.

MoonLancer · Aug 8, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
I keep stressing that we as Christians already know that not everyone is going to listen to the word of God. But it should never stop us preaching it as it's about saving lives, eternal peace and most of all LOVE.

Gay love?

SithDoughnut · Aug 8, 2010

The Lady Kate said:
Wow... 80 posts and not one coherent argument against gay marriage... I'm subscribing just to see how badly this train wrecks.

It was a train wreck from the start, it's not going get any more wrecked. This thread appears to be more a demonstration of a point rather than a question, and it does demonstrate it very well.

MoonLancer · Aug 8, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
Goodtry said:

Again Christians' job is to preach the word of God in all the lands. All sin is a mockery to God. You may not know it but in Britian 'gay marraige' or 'civil partnership' to be more precise has been around for a while now. It's impact has not hurt anyones 'ego' as you put it, but it was never about that was it? It is an indication of Godliness to which this country has succumbed to; which America will no doubt soon follow suit and it will only be to its detriment. As an ungodly world will surely mean the end of time is at hand - then you will see why it's best to believe and worship God.

Click to expand...

Humans were ungodly long before they created the idea of god and will be ungodly long after the idea looses its purpose.

freereason · Aug 8, 2010

Ok, so back OT. Same sex marriage and Prop 8, really brings up the question of the purpose of sex in a civil union. Is the union simply for monetary advantage, or is there a component of emotion involved? In NC, not only is same sex marriage unlawful, but also people who are related closer than first cousins. If the argument for same sex marriage is to provide the same financial opportunities as a man and woman living together, how about a mother and son living under the same roof with the same financial burdens as the gay or straight household. Should they not also be afforded the same civil advantage?

It would seem to me that the right to have lawful same sex marriages is more about overcoming religious and social dogma than equal rights under the law. I would argue that the marriage of a man and a woman represents the same special interests as a gay marriage, both groups looking to gain special advantage under the law. If equal rights were the issue, why not lobby to remove civil unions from having any governmental benefit whatsoever, and leave it as nothing more binding than a social or religious pact? Then religious and gay organizations could argue over the morality of gay sex, which is what this is really about.

KIYX · Aug 8, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
Don't know whether I'm classifed as a fundamentalist or not but whatever a Christian say or do to try and convince anyone who don't want to know the word of God, you're always going to find someone who'd oppose it. Jesus tried and they killed him!

I'm pretty sure the jews knew the word of god.

Ayersy · Aug 8, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
Who's forcing? I say it over and over again - true Christians woud NEVER force - God COULD do that but he doesn't because again the message is about LOVE. Yes we can't wait to be with Jesus but as with God we want as many people to be saved as possible because not only do we love you, God loves you so much more.

Just not enough to let them live a happy life, the way they want to live it, gotcha. That ain't love.

I'm more loving than that, and I hate most people.

kharisym · Aug 8, 2010

So thus far, all this thread's god is a lot of incoherent, illogical screeching to answer the proposed question.

Awesome train-wreck. *grabs popcorn*

tcampen · Aug 9, 2010

kharisym said:
So thus far, all this thread's god is a lot of incoherent, illogical screeching to answer the proposed question.

Awesome train-wreck. *grabs popcorn*

I haven't seen a single coherent opposition to Judge Walker's ruling in any threads in CF dealing with this issue. It is an unexpected vidication of the judge's reasoning.

Maren · Aug 9, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
You don't understand. I don't live in the US.

I don't believe I ever claimed you were in the US. My post had nothing to do with US law.

xGodsGracex said:
I'm not advocting or rejecting 'gay marraige' as I don't live there.

This thread is on gay marriage and your previous post was about marriage -- and how gay marriage isn't marriage per your definition. That is what I responded to.

xGodsGracex said:
In the UK they are ALREADY allowed to have a 'civil partnership'. Yes that's right it's already here.

I don't see how that is relevant to this thread. Nor how it shows it has any effect on your marriage or your ability to believe what you will about religious marriage.

xGodsGracex said:
I'm saying that SIN IS AGAINST GOD. And yes you're right, all sorts of disbelieving people had got 'married' under a Christian ceremony but that's neither here nor there to me as it will or won't had happened anyway.

But, again, you said that marriage was between the couple and God -- the fact that disbelieving people get married all the time shows that the legal definition already is not the same as your religious beliefs about marriage. It makes no sense, therefore, to deny gay marriage based on your belief of what marriage is (at least in a legal sense).

xGodsGracex said:
The reason why 'gayness' if you like, is raised here, (and it's frequent I noticed), is because THEY bring it up. THEY are making an issue out it. Atheist as far as I'm aware are not. But the message is the same for all unrepetant sinners. REPENT AND DO GOD'S WILL. THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.

And if Athiests were being denied the right to marry, I imagine you'd hear from them, too. If I understand correctly, though, you are stating that your previous post had nothing to do with the OP and was off-topic because you were stating your religious views and not how allowing gays to marry harms straight marriage.

xGodsGracex · Aug 9, 2010

I'm still, (believe it or not), fairly new here especially in comparison to some.

The way this forum seem to go is someone makes a point, I respond and because they usually, (perhaps deliberately), seem to misunderstand what I say, we sort of get into conversations which may lead to the topic seemingly going off point. But the core of what I try to say is always going to be the same.

The bible says that for a man/woman to be with the same gender as like in a marriage is wrong.

I personally do not see how it affects me physically or otherwise if the same gender chooses to get 'married', (I'm using that word as it's easy and everybody knows what it means), not because I'm advocating its existence. But as a child of God, because I do believe in his word, because I do want to do his will, if God says it's wrong then I must preach that; so must other Christians.

So now I'm hearing the words 'free will' has come into some of your minds - whatever - I do believe it is a sin. Ultimately what I'm saying is this:

The way to get to heaven is to repent of your sins, believe in God with all of your heart and soul, believe that Jesus is the way and by the grace of God you may be saved.

No doubt all you unbelievers will twist all what I said somehow and anyhow you want but I know what I said and so does God.

That is all I'm going to say on the matter.

Ar Cosc · Aug 9, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
I'm still, (believe it or not), fairly new here especially in comparison to some.

The way this forum seem to go is someone makes a point, I respond and because they usually, (perhaps deliberately), seem to misunderstand what I say, we sort of get into conversations which may lead to the topic seemingly going off point. But the core of what I try to say is always going to be the same.

I call it "internet autism". Some of the subtleties of the post are often lost on the reader. It's not usually deliberate.

The bible says that for a man/woman to be with the same gender as like in a marriage is wrong.

I personally do not see how it affects me physically or otherwise if the same gender chooses to get 'married', (I'm using that word as it's easy and everybody knows what it means), not because I'm advocating its existence. But as a child of God, because I do believe in his word, because I do want to do his will, if God says it's wrong then I must preach that; so must other Christians.

So now I'm hearing the words 'free will' has come into some of your minds - whatever - I do believe it is a sin. Ultimately what I'm saying is this:

The way to get to heaven is to repent of your sins, believe in God with all of your heart and soul, believe that Jesus is the way and by the grace of God you may be saved.

No doubt all you unbelievers will twist all what I said somehow and anyhow you want but I know what I said and so does God.

That is all I'm going to say on the matter.

Okay, so to clarify, you're saying that you don't really mind if gay people are allowed to have civil partnerships, or even if they call it a marriage, but you'll continue to preach that you believe homosexuality is wrong, as per your religious beliefs?

b&wpac4 · Aug 9, 2010

xGodsGracex said:
I personally do not see how it affects me physically or otherwise if the same gender chooses to get 'married', (I'm using that word as it's easy and everybody knows what it means), not because I'm advocating its existence. But as a child of God, because I do believe in his word, because I do want to do his will, if God says it's wrong then I must preach that; so must other Christians.

I believe the problem you are experiencing is that believing something is a sin, and telling others it is does not constitute a good argument for why it should be disallowed. You probably think my beliefs are a sin, one of the gravest in fact, as I deny Jesus was anything more than a man, if he existed at all.

Do you believe my beliefs should be disallowed or do you think they should be allowed even if you disagree?

onemorequestion · Aug 9, 2010

Goodtry said:
One of the things Judge Walker did during the trial to overturn Prop 8 was give the Fundamentalist Christian defense team every opportunity to demonstrate a compelling state interest in keeping marriage a Penis+Vagina only affair. In reading some of the transcripts and watching the reenactments of the proceedings I got the impression Judge Walker was trying extra hard to draw out the arguments of the Pro-Prop 8 defendants. That way their objections to overturning Prop 8 could be fully fleshed-out and made crystal clear.

It seemed almost contradictory that this (supposed) "Homosexual activist judge" (appointed by Republicans and once deemed "too insensitive to gays" by Nancy Pelosi) would give the defendants such a wide berth to make their argument. Unfortunately the defending side seemingly failed to make a cogent argument. One can only assume this was because they were just nervous or something. After all every single credible scientific, sociological and medical study on the subject incontrovertibly proves the superiority of opposite sex married couples over same-sex couples right?

Well, if you're a fundamentalist Christianist who was upset by the ruling and the lame defense of Prop 8 here's your chance to once and for all silence to pro-homosexualists voices. Demonstrate in specific, concrete, incontrovertible examples: that same-sex marriage is harmful to society. No one can argue with fact after all.
gl

So then this thread IS setting down the inescapable reality that this IS a Gays versus Christians issue.

Duly noted for history to be well represented.

And settled by a Gay man.

Ar Cosc · Aug 9, 2010

onemorequestion said:
So then this thread IS setting down the inescapable reality that this IS a Gays versus Christians issue.

Duly noted for history to be well represented.

And settled by a Gay man.

I am not gay, and Fenny the Fox is a christian. Weak effort.

Psudopod · Aug 9, 2010

So then this thread IS setting down the inescapable reality that this IS a Gays versus Christians issue.

How is it a gays versus Christians issue? No churches are being forced to perform gay marriage. No one is says Christians aren’t allowed to consider it a sin anymore. Secular society recognises gay marriage, but no Christian has to consider it a valid marriage in the eyes of God. Presumable no atheist, hindu or Shinto marriage would be valid in the eyes of God either, but I don’t see any outrage about those happening.

Wiccan_Child · Aug 9, 2010

onemorequestion said:
So then this thread IS setting down the inescapable reality that this IS a Gays versus Christians issue.

Except for the fact that both the Judge and most of the plaintiffs were themselves Christians.

SithDoughnut · Aug 9, 2010

onemorequestion said:
So then this thread IS setting down the inescapable reality that this IS a Gays versus Christians issue.

Duly noted for history to be well represented.

And settled by a Gay man.

It's Gays versus some Christians, not all Christians.

onemorequestion · Aug 9, 2010

Psudopod said:
[/color][/b][/size]

How is it a gays versus Christians issue?

Click to expand...

Is anti-gay speech a hate crime? The New Testament is full of anti-gay writings. ESPECIALLY ON THE HOLINESS OF MARRIAGE. There is simply no such thing as same gender mariage. It is absurd and utterly sinful to support or encourage. (But of course not for anti and non Christians.)

"No churches are being forced to perform gay marriage."

Click to expand...

Duly noted this day. Soulforce activists are scheming to change that.

No one is says Christians arent allowed to consider it a sin anymore.

Click to expand...

As long as they never say that outside of their private religious meetings? 20th century history repeating itself?

Secular society recognises gay marriage,

Click to expand...

In only a few states and some European countries and now Mexico (no surpise there). That's only part of worldwide secularism.

but no Christian has to consider it a valid marriage in the eyes of God.

Click to expand...

Duly noted.

And it isn't.

Presumable no atheist, hindu or Shinto marriage would be valid in the eyes of God either, but I dont see any outrage about those happening.

Click to expand...

Same gender marriage is NOT the structure of marriage per God (and Adam). Man and woman is though. It does not say that the HUSBAND (male) AND WIFE(female)* need to be believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Structure is structure. Even for the pagans.

As is demonstrated even here, THIS IS GAYS (and their non and anti Christian supporters) VERSUS CHRISTIANS.

If honesty is important.

In concrete terms: Demonstrate how gay marriage harms straight marriage.

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