Do you believe in the rapture?

I agree in many ways, TheTruth. Though I have never seen the persecution that you describe in Ukraine and Russia here in the United States, I do believe that it is possible. You're right, the Bible is being taken out of lots of things in America. America is a "free country" compared to many places, but the same thing that gives Christians their freedom also allows others to claim freedom. I wish that we could have Bibles and prayers in schools, but it seems as though the Bill of Rights, the thing that gives us freedom of religion, also gives freedom of religion to all religions in America. That means that the government will not allow us to do things that it says would offend other people. I wish that it was not this difficult, but it is. Also, I think that people here in America often think badly of Christianity just like other people around the world, although, like you say, they don't persecute as severely as other places. However, I agree that it will grow worse as time moves forward. The best thing we can do is pray for America and all the Christians that live here.

Very good reply there, Craig.

That is an excellent quote.

Regards,

YM


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17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”
The Holy Bible : New International Version (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996, c1984). [/B]

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Answer for Steph~
Paul describes "The Rapture" in 1 Thess. 4:13-17. You are correct, the word "Rapture" does not appear anywhere in the context of the Bible. It is formed from a Latin translation of the Bible from the phrase "simul rapiemur cum illis". The actual words used in the Bible are "harpadzo", meaning "caught up"

(reference Spirit-Filled Life Bible, NKJV, p. 1565)

I personally believe in pre-trib rapture, but who really knows? It could really be any of the three, from what I've read and studied. Either way, I'm gonna be flyin' away or gettin' my head chopped, I don't care, 'cause either way, I'll get to be with Jesus!!! That's all that really matters!

I'd also like to say that I just love this site! Everyone gets along through debate and there's no put-downs or making fun of one another (teasing, maybe, but in a friendly way). And I have been able to learn so much from the message boards, seeing each person's opinions and references, and being able to look them up myself and compare and contrast! This is SO GREAT! I have learned more in the last few days I think than I have in the last month! Thanks to all and God bless everyone!

~N~
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Amen to that brother!!!

I just hope and pray that everybody here will continue to respect each other's veiwpoints and compare it to our own to make us better persons for God and everybody else.

Peace and God bless everybdy!!!

Thanks for explaining how we got the word "rapture". I've always wondered. Now, explain where the word "trinity" came from if that also isn't in the Bible (You don't have to if you don't want, but I figured you would know)

Also, I was thinking about this site last night and how it is very different from other Christian sites I've posted on. Everyone really does respect one another, and I see very little, if any, debates that negative. I mean, if I got up here one day feeling really down, and expressed my doubt and skeptecism (sp?) that I sometimes have, I think people would be supportive and try to lift me up rather than try to berate me for having doubts. I appreciate that! THANKS GUYS!

I wish i could reply clearly steph but I don't have my Bible with me right now so ill make it as simple for me as possible :o

At the first book of the Bible when the creation was happening God said in plural term"Let US make man in OUR own image"

He was not talking to angels for they are below God and could not make an image out of them.

Jesus appeared in our world to save us from our sins and we can conclude He is God and the Son Of God.

Thomas said after seeing Christ " My Lord and my God!!!"

Then in the epistles it said that we must pray towards the Holy Spirit for comfort and guidance.

We can't pray to anyone except to God only right?

Also in the benediction of Paul he frequently uses the term in a singular context" The Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Let's see now, there is God, Jesus Christ as God and the Holy Spirit as God.

The three in one for we have only one God.

Sometimes we can't grasp it but the mind of man is like a drop of water compared to the vastness of the ocean which is the mind of God.

I hope that helps.

If by "rapture" one means the "catching up" of the living at the second coming, then yes, that's clearly scriptural. It's the entire, literal 7-year tribulation and millenium for which I find no sound Biblical basis.

Hmm....let me think here Steph

I don't know the word history behind the use of "trinity", but I know a few things about the trinity...

As Blackwing said in his post, when God created man he said "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..." ~Gen 1:26 (NKJV)

This is not to say that there are 3 gods.

The trinity was explained to me like this: God is three persons within His person. Take you, for example. I read in one of your posts that you have a child. To your child, you are "Mom". I assume, therefore, you are married, so to your husband, you are "Wife". You probably also have a job, and there you are "co-worker". Have a mom and dad? To them you are "daughter". You get the idea. We each have diffferent facets of our being. We use different qualities of our being for our different roles.

In the trinity, there are three "roles" God has, God the Father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit. God the Father is the omnipresent God. God the Son is Jesus who came to earth, fully God and fully man, to die for our sins. God the Holy Spirit is the Helper God left for us after Jesus returned to heaven. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God which lives in us. Each role is just as important as the other, and He does not play one role more than the other. He is just simply God.

Man is fashioned after God (Gen 1:26-27) in the manner of the trinity because man has body, soul, and spirit; three expressions of the same human being.

Hope this was of some help to ya'

~N~
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Revelation 9:6-

During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; theu will long to die, but death will elude them.

I don't think (according to this) that those Christian's who want to die for Christ during the tribulation will kill themselves. Or if they wanted to die for Christ, they would be taken beforehand.

I believe in pre-rapture because of the whole Noah and Lot thing- and how God took them into safety before-hand. If it will be like that again, then shouldn't Jesus take us to safety before He pours our His wrath on the earth?

-Just my viewpoint-

P.S. Where does it say that the Holy Spirit will leave after the rapture as well as the Christians? Who will convict the hearts of those who are left through the prophets left?

I've already been crucified with Christ. I'm under His blood, and forgiven. It is He, that lives in me. Why would Jesus want to punish his bride? The tribulation is the time of Jacobs Trouble. I think that we should remember back, to a time when God changed Jacobs name to Israel. It was Israel that rejected Christ, not the Church.

I believe the parable of the 10 virgins tells the story rather nicely.
The five wise virgins were ready and prepared, these are the ones who were not caught off guard (rapture- the hope of all those in Christ). It was the other five that were caught off guard (not ready- left behind). They refused to open Gods free gift. Now it's too late, they were told to go and buy their own. It is no longer a free gift, it will now cost them dearly. They will have to refuse the Mark of the Beast.

To everyone who wants to go through the wrath, I would advise you to be very careful what you ask for, you may just get it....>>>>>>>rollinTHUNDER

Originally posted by Craig_Thompson
1. It will happen at the end of the Tribulation (post-tribulation rapture)

I don't know which of these views is correct but from my study, I tend to favor #1.

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Revelation 19

13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

Who are those dressed in white linen? The saints! I believe from this verse that the saints who are raptured (among others) will return with Christ as stated here. Why would we be raptured at the end only to immediately bounce back down with Christ? I don't think there are any verses to support anything but a rapture (catching away) of the saints before the time of God's judgement.

"Why does it matter when it happens ?

Your saying your not willing to die for Lord Jesus the Christ ?

Those who fear death are not saved."

Where do you find that in scripture? For you to say someone who fears death is unsaved is a huge mistake. Only the Holy Spirit knows who is saved and to make a pronouncement like this is out of your realm as a believer. It's fine to tell someone they don't have to fear death, but to say what you just said is rediculous. Read the Psalms and see how many times David fears those who are out to harm him! Was David saved?

Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
Revelation 9:6-

P.S. Where does it say that the Holy Spirit will leave after the rapture as well as the Christians? Who will convict the hearts of those who are left through the prophets left?

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2 Thessalonians 2:7-8: 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

This is the verse that Kristen is referring to. I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is taken away in the sense that He no longer influences people's minds and convicts of sin. I believe the "taken away" refers to the fact that He will no longer restrain evil as He has always done. Satan and his demons will have a much longer leash with which to cause the things the scripture describes will happen at that time.

God Bless

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
I've already been crucified with Christ. I'm under His blood, and forgiven. It is He, that lives in me. Why would Jesus want to punish his bride? The tribulation is the time of Jacobs Trouble. I think that we should remember back, to a time when God changed Jacobs name to Israel. It was Israel that rejected Christ, not the Church.

I believe the parable of the 10 virgins tells the story rather nicely.
The five wise virgins were ready and prepared, these are the ones who were not caught off guard (rapture- the hope of all those in Christ). It was the other five that were caught off guard (not ready- left behind). They refused to open Gods free gift. Now it's too late, they were told to go and buy their own. It is no longer a free gift, it will now cost them dearly. They will have to refuse the Mark of the Beast.

To everyone who wants to go through the wrath, I would advise you to be very careful what you ask for, you may just get it....>>>>>>>rollinTHUNDER

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Well said rollinThunder! I agree.

On the subject of "Do you believe in the rapture?" I would have to say "Yes" because it is clearly taught in scripture.

If you were to ask me whether I think it is pre or post tribulation, then I would honestly have to say - I don't know, and the reason for that answer is that I don't think scripture is clear on this point.

Many will argue that it's pre others will argue that it is post. The important point is that whether it is pre or post we can trust the Lord to get it right.....

Many blessings to all....

I stand corrected!!! :o

Sorry.

And yes I would die for Christ!!!

I am not afraid of death!!! I know where I am going!

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8: 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

This is the verse that Kristen is referring to. I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is taken away in the sense that He no longer influences people's minds and convicts of sin. I believe the "taken away" refers to the fact that He will no longer restrain evil as He has always done. Satan and his demons will have a much longer leash with which to cause the things the scripture describes will happen at that time.

God Bless

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I believe you are right. I feel stupid. :o

Well I am learning!

Don't feel stupid Kristen, none of us know everything. We are all still learning.

I believe the scriptures support a pretribulational rapture. It isn't ear tickling doctrine. The Bible shows that there are two things that will happen, the rapture(Jesus will call us up at a time that no man knows) also He will return to earth. Daniel was given the time of His return, I believe 1290 days(or something like that) and if we were to be here during the tribulation we would be able to pinpoint the day and Jesus made it clear that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night and that no man would know the day or hour. So there are 2 events that will take place, the rapture and the second coming. I hardly believe that God would become flesh and take the punishment of sin for us, but put us through the great tribulation, when the Bible says He hasn't appointed us to wrath.
We are the children of God by faith in Christ, why would God want us to endure anything like that?
People often mistake tribulation with The Tribulation which is coming. We will all have tribulation, but we are redeemed and shall be saved from the hour of trial.
It is the church that will be removed and therefore the influence of the Holy Spirit will be removed and He will no longer restrain evil forces. The Holy Spirit cannot be taken out of the way because He is God.

Thanks Mandy, I understand now. I have learned something and that is a good thing!