the Pope and the Papacy
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This is not true. A married man can become a priest. We have several in the area. We had a married Baptist minister convert to Catholicism and he became a priest, last year.
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Searching_for_Christ
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Searching_for_Christ
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I won't comment on this one, as its not my place to say who or what is damning
who knows, this one sounds more like opinion.
you can see he gets this from what he believes the true Church to be, and whether you want to admit it or not, protestants are viewed the same way
Probably gets these ideas from all the tradition and such involved with being a priest
most people probably only do just venerate..but it is the encouragment of this practice that can very easily lead people astray
well I have heard Catholics tell me that the Lord cannot refuse his mothers requests.
I have heard this argument before, he is not teaching..he is explaining the result of your teachings (I'm not saying you guys do..but this is what he believes when you say you bring the Lords body into the wafer ect)
I'm still trying to figure this one out myself so...
You cannot deny that this was a practice in the Church. My dad even has a certificate of sorts in his bedroom dresser that states that someone PAID for a Mass on his deceased mothers behalf...this I find..disturbing.
I hope he made this distinction in regards to being a Priest or Monk ect.
this is of course still..a debate that will rage on till the ends of time.
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Standing Up
On and on
So, in that sense/clarification, it is forced celibacy.
I understand the reason about focusing on God or earth, but Paul also said, it's a gift, not something to be forced or restricted. Again, Peter was married, but again, Peter was not a RC priest either.
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Trento
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I won't comment on this one, as its not my place to say who or what is damning
who knows, this one sounds more like opinion.
you can see he gets this from what he believes the true Church to be, and whether you want to admit it or not, protestants are viewed the same way
Probably gets these ideas from all the tradition and such involved with being a priest
most people probably only do just venerate..but it is the encouragment of this practice that can very easily lead people astray
well I have heard Catholics tell me that the Lord cannot refuse his mothers requests.
I have heard this argument before, he is not teaching..he is explaining the result of your teachings (I'm not saying you guys do..but this is what he believes when you say you bring the Lords body into the wafer ect)
I'm still trying to figure this one out myself so...
You cannot deny that this was a practice in the Church. My dad even has a certificate of sorts in his bedroom dresser that states that someone PAID for a Mass on his deceased mothers behalf...this I find..disturbing.
This charge is without foundation. It is customary to give the priest a stole fee for Requiem Masses, as it is customary to give him a stole fee for weddings and Baptisms. This isn't obligatory, of course -- noone ever has to pay for a Sacrament or a liturgical service, and the poor are exempt from this sort of etiquette -- but a stole fee -- also called a stipend or honorarium -- is an appreciated financial recognition of the priest's time and services.
Since indulgences remit only temporal penalties, they cannot remit the eternal penalty of hell. Once a person is in hell, no amount of indulgences will ever change that fact. The only way to avoid hell is by appealing to Gods eternal mercy while still alive. After death, ones eternal fate is set (Heb. 9:27).
An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain defined conditions through the Churchs help when, as a minister of redemption, she dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions won by Christ and the saints"
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How come threads on Indulgences get closed and never reopen? This thread didn't even get one response before it was closed ehehe....
http://www.christianforums.com/t7344026/#post50681182
Back to Indulgences
I see that my thread on indulgences has not been reopened, so I will start a new one.
My OP was as follows:
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Standing Up
On and on
The practice of indulgences has changed over time, depending on which way the whim blows.
They are not found in the very early church.
They are not found in the very early church.
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if it is in fact false it would be damning...Places that teach in opposition to scripture may well be damning
well this is up for debate, i'll take the true church that actually uses scripture as it's authoratative plumb-line.
Prove it isn't using scripture
well if it's teachings fail the plumbline? where does that position her?
False priesthood, see Hebrews...
straight up against scripture
See the Psalter of Mary along with many other prayers that exalt her to a nearly deistic identity.
same sacrifice continually...Semantics
the thief on the cross proves that it's a non-essential
Prove this isn't true.
Yep. See Johan Tetzel, commissioned by the Pope...when a coin in the coffer rings a soul from purgatory doth spring.
semantics
Head of the church, people bowing and kissing his hand, and all the pomp and pageantry... USURPER
He is truthful about what the church ("the elect") teaches, and it can be shown by the alignment to scripture.
No he gives his congregation the truth at the expense of you guys slandering his name...The PLUMB-LINE to truth? SCRIPTURE, he follows it.
If you can't use scripture to prove he is lying you should not be calling a man of God a liar, you're treading on dangerous ground when you actually use the written word of God as your plumb-line to truth.
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http://www.christianforums.com/t7439769/
Plumb line of Scripture
*snip OP*:
It's become somewhat of an argument around this Forum lately for follks to suggest that since Tradition supposedly gave us the Scriptures, we all need to accept everything else that Tradition provided. To reject Tradition X, but accept Scripture is inconsistent, they say................
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JacktheCatholic
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Trento
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It is true that Catholic priests in the West may not be married, but no one is obliged to become a priest. Marriage is not forbidden to them as human beings, but as priests. A Catholic man is free to choose the celibate priesthood, the married life, or even the single life (which also is celibate). Celibacy is forced on no one.
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But he feels that it is his place.
He is standing in a pulpit of a Christian Church. He needs to keep unfounded opinions to himself and not claim them as truth to his sheep. A teacher will be judged more strictly than the sheep.
By whom?
Still a false statement showing that he is clueless about the traditions of the ancient Church.
In what way does admiring the Apostle Paul lead someone astray? Some, weak in faith, may go way too far but the Catholic and Orthodox Church warn people about this and teach them that only God is to be worshiped.
Catholics telling you something and the Church teaching it is quite different.
Again, he is supposed to a representative of Jesus Christ. He is a teacher. He is standing in a pulpit telling his congregation a lie.
Confession? Confession has been a part of the ancient Church from its beginning. Granted it has evolved but Christ granted his representatives the authority to forgive sins.I'm still trying to figure this one out myself so...
Was a practice and is one are quite two separate things. The CC recognized this was occurring and that it was wrong to do so and put an end to its improper usage.
I'm not sure exactly what this is but here is what Indulgences are not.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Indulgences
What an indulgence is not
To facilitate explanation, it may be well to state what an indulgence is not. It is not a permission to commit sin, nor a pardon of future sin; neither could be granted by any power. It is not the forgiveness of the guilt of sin; it supposes that the sin has already been forgiven. It is not an exemption from any law or duty, and much less from the obligation consequent on certain kinds of sin, e.g., restitution; on the contrary, it means a more complete payment of the debt which the sinner owes to God. It does not confer immunity from temptation or remove the possibility of subsequent lapses into sin. Least of all is an indulgence the purchase of a pardon which secures the buyer's salvation or releases the soul of another from Purgatory. The absurdity of such notions must be obvious to any one who forms a correct idea of what the Catholic Church really teaches on this subject.
Why? In neither case is celibacy forced. Each freely choose celibacy.
Again, Why? The Pope has not usurped anything. Jesus is the head of his Church. Jesus is in heaven. The Pope is a representative of Jesus on earth.
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No, no priest has been forced to be celibate. Each has made the free will choice to be celibate.
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Did you get that out of my question? You really need to read it again and answer the question.
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Ahh.. I found a thread on that
http://www.christianforums.com/t4819899-70/#post31874793
Celibacy
Is forced Celibacy a dedication to Cybele?
[Note:- Question edited by myself Tyndale, as I believe forced celibacy is the issue, not celibacy in general.]
Celibacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Celibacy is viewed differently by the Catholic Church and the various Protestant communities. It includes clerical celibacy, voluntary lay celibacy, and celibacy outside of marriage.
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I know I may be coming in late here, but I was thinking about this yesterday. Why exactly is celibacy attached to the office of priest? I don't see how a celibate man would be any more or less fit to serve.
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